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Author Topic: Need Advice regarding Malaysian Trumpet Snails please complete newbie  (Read 14834 times)
soulm8salways
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« on: January 18, 2008, 12:39:11 PM »

Hi, We just switched to a nearly completely sand substrate in both of our tanks. In fact one of the tanks is completely sand now the 29 gallon...and the other has only one small patch of gravel holding my arteficial plants in place. I have no live plants at this point but might try java fern, java moss and anubias since they sound like a good place to start without special requirements. Still not sure yet.

 Anyway I've heard that sand substrate can have problems with gas pockets and that Malaysian trumpet snails are great for stirring up the substrate to avoid this. Thought I'd ask a few questions before considering them. I've never kept a snail in my life so would be completely new to this.

 I'm wondering first and foremost whether they would add to my bioload becoming a problem as both of my tanks are mildly overstocked. I started with a 29 gallon and had 8 cherrry barbs, 6 tiger barbs and 3 yo yo loaches. The tigers needed less inhabitants in their tank so I bought an extra 20 gallon and moved the cherry barbs in there with a male crowntail betta and 5 cories (3 albino, 2 panda) I'd like to get 1-2 more panda cories for their comfort but not sure the tank will allow it. LFS only had two at the time of purchase so we bought the 3 albino to make the panda's more comfortable.

 In the next year I plan to try to get a 55 gallon to move my tigers and loaches into and will upgrade the cherry barbs, cories and betta to the 29 gallon. That's a bit down the line though. Everyone is still juvenile and for now all is going well.

 Anyway that is my stocking and I know yo yo loaches can eat snails, not sure about the malaysian trumpet snails though. So it may not be an option to add any snails to my 29 gallon. Suggestions if any would fare well with the loaches are invited.

 Wondered though about the 20 gallon whether cherry barbs, betta or cories would eat the snails?

 Also whether the snails will multiply and become a problem.

 Any suggestions for dealing with the sand substrates in either tank are appreciated. Open to any type of snail or otherwise for that matter that would help in stirring the substrate without overloading the bioload and multiplying significantly. Thanks for responding

Both tanks are fully cycled, 50% change a week and 0 ammonia, nitrite and less than 5 nitrate by water change
 
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"Faith began this journey, Love will sustain" 45 gallon 6 yo yo loaches, albino bristlenose pleco 29 gallon peaceful community tank with 10 neon tetra, 2 gold barbs, 1 male betta, 6 albino cories, bristlenose pleco
Gopi
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« Reply #1 on: January 18, 2008, 12:45:59 PM »

Generally, to worry about anaerobic spots in sand, you would need sand more than 4 inches deep. This is not a problem for most people, but could happen.

MTS are parthenogenic livebears...meaning, one snail "gives birth" to live babies, it does not lay eggs. They are pretty good for burrowing through sand and keeping it aerated. They generally stay small, you may not even see them. Unless you look at your tank late at night, you might see a couple hundred climbing the walls (then you can attempt to pick them out.)

The snail population will be dependent on the food available (like the pond or ramshorn snails)...too much excess food = millions of snails. You won't need to specifically feed them, they will find food on their own.

I have found that my zebra loaches are able to eat the smaller MTS, but with a bit more difficulty than other snails. It takes more effort to get the meal.

Bioload for a few is pretty negligible. When you feel you have too many, just start picking them out and disposing of them.
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Debra
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« Reply #2 on: January 18, 2008, 12:50:53 PM »

Pest Snail Article

http://www.badmanstropicalfish.com/forum/index.php/topic,1040.0.html 

Quote
Wondered though about the 20 gallon whether cherry barbs, betta or cories would eat the snails?

MTS shells are really hard. The fish (barbs, betta, cory cats) would not be able to eat them even if they tried.

Quote
I know yo yo loaches can eat snails, not sure about the malaysian trumpet snails though

They will probably eat the smaller snails. The snails will however spend alot of their time in the substrate.


Quote
I'm wondering first and foremost whether they would add to my bioload becoming a problem as both of my tanks are mildly overstocked.


They would only add to your bioload if their numbers were high.

Ninja'd Smiley


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gomezaddams
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« Reply #3 on: January 18, 2008, 01:13:37 PM »

The mts are a useful tool but they are a commitment.Once you have them you'll need a bazooka to get rid of them.I have them in many of my tanks and they dont bother me at all.Some people are upset by the substrate "moving" when the snails have a population boom.
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soulm8salways
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« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2008, 01:30:40 PM »

Thanks for the advice guys. I'm definitely concerned that I'd be the one to end up with a population explosion especially since my cories do not always eat all of the bottom feeder tablets or pellets. I'm still working on the right balance with how much food is just enough for them.

 Now are there any of the larger snails (mystery snail etc.)that I could purchase just one per tank and achieve some stirring of the substrate? My substrate is only an inch or two deep but especially if I try any plants I worry whether I'd be able to stir it enough to avoid problems. Glad to know it's more common in 4" deep substrate.
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"Faith began this journey, Love will sustain" 45 gallon 6 yo yo loaches, albino bristlenose pleco 29 gallon peaceful community tank with 10 neon tetra, 2 gold barbs, 1 male betta, 6 albino cories, bristlenose pleco
Karen
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« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2008, 01:50:08 PM »

I put 20 in my tilapia tank at random last September.  I had them and figured "why not?"  I now have approximately 78 billion trillion.  That is an estimate of course, they don't hold still long enough to count.  My gravel moves, day and night.  While I eat dinner each evening they migrate up the glass and hold "snail races".  The sheer number of them is staggering.  I suppose they are harmless...but its kinda freaky how many there are.

My Christmas guests thought they were gross.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess.  I don't think they add anything "aesthetically" to the tank, but I wouldn't have called them gross either!
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gomezaddams
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« Reply #6 on: January 18, 2008, 01:53:28 PM »

The MTS are the only snauils that spend most of thier lives burrowing through the sand.You can just keep the sand bed thin and stir it at each waterchange and skip the snails
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mduros
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« Reply #7 on: January 18, 2008, 02:03:20 PM »

I have a gazillion of them like Karen.  "Undulating substrate syndrome" is what I can collectively describe mine as.  Who knows if my loaches eat any or not.  I doubt it.  I just give them away to people that want some every few months.
Take care,
Mary.
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soulm8salways
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« Reply #8 on: January 18, 2008, 02:13:52 PM »

Well from the sound of it snail are definitely out for me. I am certain I'd manage to get overrun and I can't kill anything on purpose so I'd be up the creek without a paddle. Thanks for the honesty and for alleviating my concerns about the substrate. I am stirring it regularly just to be safe.
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"Faith began this journey, Love will sustain" 45 gallon 6 yo yo loaches, albino bristlenose pleco 29 gallon peaceful community tank with 10 neon tetra, 2 gold barbs, 1 male betta, 6 albino cories, bristlenose pleco
mduros
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So close no matter how far


« Reply #9 on: January 18, 2008, 02:26:20 PM »

Yeah, I can't intentionally kill anything either, though I do feed the fish and newt live blackworms.  uhoh 
Take care,
Mary.
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Gopi
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« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2008, 02:39:13 PM »

Get this...I used to have 98 billion trillion, but now, I can't even find any when I look hard for them. I think moving and the loaches wiped them out. So...they can be gotten rid of!
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mduros
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So close no matter how far


« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2008, 03:14:02 PM »

Give it time Gopi.  I believe that mine came from one that was embedded in a piece of driftwood that had been sitting dry for months.  I believe that the little devils have an incredibly tight trap door and can remain moist and dormant for a LONG time...  Then they can simply clone themselves.  biggrin  What a life!  I also believe this is why mine are such a consistently uniform color with no variation.
Take care,
Mary.
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Gopi
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« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2008, 03:44:49 PM »

Mutations occur much faster with the clones though...*thought trails off to many different theories involving genetics, but Gopi isn't going to go there and type it out*
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mduros
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So close no matter how far


« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2008, 03:57:26 PM »

Very interesting...  I have some pretty large ones.  And I love to inspect big and small for color variations, stripes, etc.  Haven't seen any.  I've done that ever since one of the members here wanted some just because of their uniformly gray color.
Take care,
Mary.
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« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2008, 04:22:58 PM »

Go to walmart or any hardware store, buy the smallest diameter wooden dowel rod, cut it to length and it makes a handy sand stirrer upper. 

Or if you are really lazy (like me) pop off one of those plastic rods that turn your window blinds up and down and use it then pop it back on! LOL
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RTR...Grumpy Ole Fogie
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« Reply #15 on: January 18, 2008, 05:09:29 PM »

MTS are limited to the oxygenated levels of the substrate.  They will not go into anaerobic areas.  They will however clean up in the thin aerated ares if sand substrates.

Mary you are not imagining things.  MTS can go for very long periods with the door closed.  I have had them come back after months on the shelf in washed and dried gravel within hours after adding such to new setups.

The solution to snail overpopulation is food control.  No excess food/poop in the substrate -> very few MTS snails. 
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Karen
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« Reply #16 on: January 18, 2008, 09:41:50 PM »

My original 20 (ish) are from Dan.  His filters sat full of water in my garage with out running them or rinsing them for at least 2 months with out a heater (it was summer time though), it may have been three months!  No oxygen, no clean water and no heat.....when I put the filters into the bath rub to wash them (with chlorinated water!)  I noticed after I was done that that carbon bits left on the shower floor were moving!  Some how they survived....
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« Reply #17 on: January 18, 2008, 09:55:50 PM »

i personally find them beautiful snails (albeit i havent found any snail i dont fine pretty), and i love the variations, marys are gray with a white tip, mine are tan with mottled spots, the ones at my LFS are black with a white opening, the ones at the other LFS are almost completely white...and so far my browns and marys greys have not interbred ^ ^ i have 2 diferent populations, ive been considering buying some of the other two colorations ^ ^. great snails, but easy to get overrun with (though honestly I am overun with ramshorn snails myself..not MTS as odd as it may sound
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« Reply #18 on: January 18, 2008, 11:11:09 PM »

I don't mind the MTS, but they haven't taken over my tanks... I have them in most of my tanks but they haven't exploded in population.  I feed those tanks sparingly, meaning the fish are fed but there isn't much of anything left over for the snails to eat. I do feed extra in one tank, but there are lots of shrimp and ramshorn snails that seem to get the food before i see many MTS on it.
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