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Author Topic: Amano shrimp dropping larval shrimp babies!!! :) NEED some quick advice!!!!  (Read 12755 times)
turtletoes
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« on: March 30, 2008, 05:46:44 PM »

Ok, I've posted a once before about breeding amano shrimp. I got a lot of suggestions to follow the advice from a link to http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/breeding_yamato.htm.  but the links didnt work, I've searched all over the net and have run across many links to his site for various things, shrimp, turtles, all kinds of stuff, but NONE of the links work. Sad I've tried on several occasions to find ANYthing that could lead me to his old site or to try to possibly find a new site in the hopes that he didnt just pull all his info from the net. I've searched for Anywhere hoping that maybe someone had copied his article on breeding amanos and I have not had Any success........sigh.

If anyone has his article, or has read it and can remember some key things like; what/how to feed them. PLEASE!! PLEASE!! let me know ASAP!! Smiley

I DID however run across this site:
 http://caridina.japonica.online.fr/English/index.html


This guy also referred to Mike's article, and gave him credit and a link, but he didnt specify what info he took or has used from Mike's article......So, I have a few questions. Because, the shrimp decided to drop the babies before I could get all the info I needed!! Good that I have a female releasing her babies today, bad cuz I'm not fully prepared and dont want them to all die.

I have her in a little 2.5g tank with some java moss and a little hob filter. I wrapped java moss around the intake to keep the filter from sucking up the babies. I thought I'd check on her today(for like the 10th time. lol) and low and behold, there are all these TINY shrimp larvae floating around in the water!! Smiley She's dropped about half of them, and I cant tell if she is scavenging and eating them, or is scavenging the other little stuff in the java moss. I'm keeping a close eye on the situation and will take her out as soon as it looks like she's released all of them.

I didnt have any idea how large or small the larvae would be, but compared to some of the daphnia running around in the water, the head of the shrimp larvae is actually smaller than some of the daphnia!

Can Daphnia eat larval shrimp?? I dont know what the daphnia actually eat, they are just everywhere. I think its small bits of algae in the FW.

On that site from the link above. He says after a few days, place them in saltwater at 34ppm salinity. I think he must have meant PPT salinity. which would be right in line with a specific gravity of close to 1.024.

For feeding them he says: My phytoplankton is Dunalliela Salina, but I think any kind of marine phytoplankton suitable for artemia breeding will do (eg. Thallassiosera Pseudomonas)

My original thought was to take some of our water from our reef tank and culture it in a smal aquarium for a week or 2 and see what grows. I know we have a lot of "pods" growing in there, but they are too large, and could actually be predatory. So..........I dont know how I'm going to feed these little guys???

Where would one find this phytoplankton??

I have access to Kent's phytomax liquid stuff, but it doesnt contain the same phytos mentioned. Anyone think this could work?? Where could I get a live culture??


If anyone has Any info on breeding amanos, or knows someone who does, please let me know
--In advance----Thank you thank you!! Smiley
~Lori



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SkiCAE
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« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2008, 06:19:42 PM »

I've never personally bred Amano Shrimp, But got the Archived version of the website you were referring to:
http://web.archive.org/web/20060502013132/http://mikes-machine.mine.nu/breeding_yamato.htm
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turtletoes
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« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2008, 07:50:08 PM »

Woo Hoo!! Smiley THANK YOU!! So much. Smiley

Anyone know what happened to his original site??

~Lori
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RTR...Grumpy Ole Fogie
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« Reply #3 on: March 31, 2008, 12:01:57 AM »

Double the thanks on that!!   party

I'm going to download and file it.
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turtletoes
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« Reply #4 on: March 31, 2008, 12:54:56 AM »

Book-marked, downloaded, and printed!! Smiley

I've got tons of little guys swimming around.(maybe 200??)

 When they 1st hatched, I had an indirect light on the tank. Some were swimming around mid-water level, and about half were bouncing around on the bottom. I swear I could see them eating stuff off the bottom.(Its a bare-bottomed tank that I just set it up yesterday. The bottom was crystal clear this morning. The only thing on the bottom was a piece of algae wafer that the momma didnt eat from last night.)-- after she was releasing the babies all this stuff appeared. Its like a transparent white-ish powder.

 I could see them make little jerking movements and picking up little tiny morsels. The only thing I can think of is it was particles from the eggs??

 I almost had an utter failure already tho!! Smiley I forgot to take that light off the timer. It was about a half an hour after lights out in the fish room when I realized it!! Almost all of them were huddled on the bottom of the tank. I changed the position of the light after I turned it back on, and they are all swimming in the mid to upper water level now. Its so weird, cuz they are head-down and just somehow rise to the surface from the bottom. You cant see any means of movement, just the fact that they are moving up or down. The only time their little bodies move is when they make the little jerking movements.

I was relieved to read that they can take spirulina powder, hopefully that can hold them over until thursday when I will be getting some frozen/live phytoplankton?? Its a new product--forgot the name--- that the LFS just took the dive and ordered a truckload of their product to be the only one in town to carry it. Its supposed to be small enough to feed BBS, so it should be ok for these guys........I forgot to ask if they had golden pearls coming in. I've never used them before. Are they typically frozen??

RTR, have you tried raising Amanos before??

Oh, and how would you "fertilize" salt water like Mike said in his article to help grow algae in there. Will phytoplankton need "fertilizer" too??

Can I just put some(FW stuff unless they make these items for FW too) nitrogen, phosphates, and possibly some potassium in some salt water and try to grow some green water?? Or use some miracle gro?? kidding. Smiley

This would not be for the tank they are in, it would be a separate tank just for growing insuforia for SW larval shrimp and possibly fry.

I dont want to seed the insuforia tank with stuff from our reef tank: by shaking out a filter or the colerpa from the refugium, cuz I know there are predatory critters in there........Could I "fertilize" the sw insuforia tank with some FW fish poop/shaking out a sponge filter in there?? Hoow about if I took some hair algae from the tank and put it in there?? Would that help??

  Both of our skunk shrimp in our reef tank are carrying eggs and my hubby saw one of our purple firefish put out some eggs or sperm this morning. He isnt up on fish and breeding, etc so didnt know exactly what it was........So, I may have the pleasure of trying to raise at least some skunk shrimp Smiley

I'll keep ya posted on my baby shrimp factory. I'd still like to hear any input from people who have tried this before too...........

~Lori
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RTR...Grumpy Ole Fogie
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« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2008, 01:30:36 AM »

Nope, lots of Amano babies, no rearing attempts. the wood shrimp loved the babies post hatch - the amano females like current for release and the woods sat on a plant downstream.  Too bad we could not capture it on video.

I raised SW rotifers for baby clowns.  Green/infusoria water for rotifers, with cultures from mail order.  Very unhelpful tonight, aren't I?  Cultures and supplies from Florida Aquatic Farms.  Multiple bottles.  Back then they were really good to deal with, but that was long ago.  I know they are still around, but I have been out of salt for a long time now.
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turtletoes
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« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2008, 03:47:49 AM »

I hadnt thought of the current issue. It makes sense. When I had the mini hob filter with java moss wrapped around the intake running. She was sitting on a clump of java moss right under the water flowing back into the tank letting the babies loose. I turned the filter of as soon as I saw all these little things bobbing up and down in the water. Smiley I have an airstone in there right now, cuz they are so small. I was afraid they just might get sucked up the intake despite the java moss "guard" I put on it. Seems like they'd have to be pretty hardy tho to withstand that long journey to the ocean. While the airstone was off, and even with the light on and them swimming towards the surface, they still werent as active as they are now that there is current back in the tank.

And, I can just see the wood shrimp gobbling up the babies. I've got one in my big mixed bow tank who perches anywhere he can find a good current--filling up his little fan-hands and filling his little mouth.

Do you think FW daphnia could eat them?? Or do daphnia only eat algae and detritus??

Well, since you havent been any help(meow?? ha haa Smiley I hope that the phyto-stuff that comes in this week will help. I also thought about phytomax, I think I already said that. I am about to sprinkle some spirulina powder in there and see if anything happens........... 

My other thought for starting some green water was to make a salt mix with tap water instead of RO water and put it in a sunny window and see if I cant get some green water/algae that way. I'm sure by the time I figure out how to make green SW, they will be past that point. lol.

its getting late. I think I'm delirious. Smiley
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RTR...Grumpy Ole Fogie
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« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2008, 04:19:40 PM »

The current is for release, and you can bet it matched the tide in the wild.  FW species which require SW/BW planktonic development would be highly positively adapted to release on the outgoing tide to get the babies downstream fast and effectively to where they can feed.  The fry (not proper term for shrimp, but I'm in a senoir moment) do need as gentle as you can arrange.  When I did  the clowns and the some cleaner shrimp, I used round containers and very, very gentle currents.  Marine immature forms are really fragile - which seems mad for something in the sea, but survival rates are tiny there.   Remember that a pair of fish or shrimp which have more than two offspring survive to reproduction are increasing their weight in the gene pool.  We are greedier when we breed our pets..

Anything that you can do to get live organisms in some several sizes to feed the offspring is good.
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turtletoes
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« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2008, 04:46:56 PM »

Ok, I found some DT's Live Phytoplankton(refridgerated) at one of my LFS today. The owner said he has heard of people being able to keep a green water culture going with this product, but did not know the temp or salinity. If anyone has any input, I'd really appreciate it.

I also got some frozen oyster eggs. They are tiny, it looks like a fine powder mist when you pinch a little chip of the frozen stuff in the water. I think that should be a good start........then, I do have some brine shrimp that I can hatch(which I know could become a problem, but thats a last resort) And, I have cyclopeeze for when they get bigger. I also have some of the Azoo "artificial rotifers" and "artificial artemia" for when they get a little bigger and can take a pinch of that ground between my fingers.--If I cant come across some live cultures of Something by then!! lol. 

They didnt seem to notice any of the spirulina powder I put in there yesterday, but do seem to be eating or biting on little insuforia in the FW tank. I almost have the salinity and temp regulated for the move. Still a little worried about just dropping them into SW, but I guess we'll just have to see Smiley

RTR, thanks for the tip on the round container. I was wondering if I should use a cylindrical glass container that I have. It holds almost 3gallons and I've used it for various things, its just hard to find a small heater that actually works. Anyone have any suggestions at what the temp should be for these guys?? I dont think he specifically mentioned that in the article--he said the highest and the lowest he knew that they had survived at. The small heaters i have will only keep the temp at 74-75degrees this time of year........and thats only in a warmer corner of the house. I dont know if these guys grow better or faster at a warmer temp......

Thanks again RTR and for anymore input anyone else may have. Smiley
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turtletoes
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« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2008, 09:49:11 PM »

Hey RTR, Look what I came across!! Smiley

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/breeder.htm

a great article on aquaculturing phytoplanktons. Annnnnd, they have a link tooooooo:

http://www.florida-aqua-farms.com/            which takes you to: https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi

and this is their home page
https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi?cart_id=3544164.18119*c33AX63544164.18119

Now, only if we drank soda around here. lol. I'll have to come up with a different container, but I get the idea anyway. There's a whole list at the bottom of that article for different websites that carry cultures of all sorts--incase anyone else needs some green water of a specific type. Oh, I also saw that the FL place has fertilizer suppliments for the cultures. Guess I dont have to think that hard about it anymore. lol Smiley
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RTR...Grumpy Ole Fogie
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« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2008, 11:03:29 PM »

You are getting plenty of input, and more recent than mine.

I have been known to ask friends and neighbors for cast-off soda bottles - local recycling as it were. 
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turtletoes
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2008, 03:29:09 PM »

Well, its time to write this attempt off as a failure.

Within a couple days of the larval shrimp being released, and them hanging out in my little 2.5g glass tank. I saw that a lot of them had dissapeared. I still went ahead and dumped them into the SW. I actually did it in increments. It was their 3rd day that I put sw into their tank to make it about half strength. They were a lot more active after I did that. I thought that was a good sign. The next day, I added more SW, again, they became more active and seemed happy with the new water. The 4th day, I dumped them in the clear-ish/partly frosted plastic tub that I decided should be big enough to raise them in for a couple months. With the plastic not being totally clear, it was harder to see, but if I looked down from above the water surface, I could still see them. Within a few days of moving them, I didnt notice anymore babies. I've tried shaking out the java moss and get nothing but lots of chunks of unidentifiable stuff-no live ones, no dead ones either tho. But, I have some SW java moss now! Smiley Its been in full strength SW for a almost a couple weeks and is growing like crazy. I also have a few bits of duckweed and crystal riccia that hung on for almost 10 days in the SW.

A couple things that I think lead to their demise.

#1--I placed some java moss in with the female so that she wasnt in a bare tank with nothing to nibble on like Amanos like to do. I also figured the little ones could hide in the moss so that she wouldnt eat them(I have now learned that they are not supposed to eat their babies)

It all happened so fast, that by the time I noticed all the little ones, I wasnt sure how many were in the java moss. I didnt want to lose any if I took it out, so the java moss stayed with them. I could also see the little ones eating off of the moss and sides of the tank where there was some algae growing on it. But, it seemed as tho they were dissapearing, I thought into the moss--didnt know if that was good or bad but it was already there. I couldnt decide whether to take it out or leave it. So, I left it. I think that was a bad decision.

#2-- is that I had them in a glass tank and the little ones would congregate on the silicone on the bottom corners of the tank. They Seemed to be able to wiggle off of it, but again, they were dissapearing. I dont know if they died and were possible eaten by their siblings or other insuforia that was in the FW(daphnia, rotifers, little planeria worms or even hydra--again, I never saw any dead ones) or if they died and were swirled into the java moss. When I dumped them into the rounded bottom plastic container, I really didnt see many by then. Maybe 20-30 out of over a hundred. I am afraid some were stuck on the silicone of the 2.5g tank. I rinsed the tank profusely with SW and kept pouring it into the new container or siphoned the water off of the silicone with a turkey baster. Or, they could have been stuck under/between the plastic frame and the glass at the top when I poured it in the new container. 

I fed them DT's, I didnt notice anything different in their behaviour when I did that. I think they had more to eat out of the java moss and that the liquid stuff didnt do them any good.

So, within a few days of moving them to the new container, I didnt see anymore little ones. I kept the light on and fed frozen oyster eggs and the DT's just incase that was doing something for them. The DT's did end up colonizing on the bottom and sides of the tank. So, it may not directly feed them, maybe after its had some time to grow it is big enough to make some edible particles for them. I did one 30% w/c in that time and didnt see any little ones in the water I took out either.

So, next time, I will just skip the 1st step and place the momma shrimp in the plastic container and go from there.

I am sure these are amano shrimp, they have the characteristic spots on their tails. I have another female that is holding eggs. We'll see what happens.

~Lori
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RTR...Grumpy Ole Fogie
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2008, 09:17:07 PM »

Good Luck!
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turtletoes
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« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2008, 05:51:35 PM »

I'm resurrecting this thread to let you guys know that I noticed that one of my female amano shrimp is carrying eggs again!!! Smiley

So, the fun begins! I've gotta refresh my memory on the specifics of raising the fry, but I learned some Very important lessons last time.....

NO siliconed containers---I will use a smooth cornered transparent plastic or plexiglass tank/container
NO Java Moss in the larval shrimp tank!!! --they will get stuck in it and die and the mama will not eat her young as she is releasing them.......
I've not made any salt water green water-- Guess I've gotta go get some more DT's or a similar brand if I cant create some green water naturally(I've gotten pretty good at that!! Smiley
In order to accomidate leaving the light on in the container, I think I will place it in a box with a light and that will keep the light from illuminating my fish room 24/7.
Place the mama shrimp in the container that I will be raising the shrimp in. Put just enough water in the container for her to be comfortable. Remove her after she releases the young...then, add pre-mixed salt water to the tank until I get up to full strength sea water.
Use only an airstone or sponge filter set at a med-low current.

I think that's it, except that I just so happened to come across this article on raising Amano Shrimp today! Smiley
http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/pfk/pages/blog.php?blogid=197

 I'll keep ya'll updated on this attempt. Smiley I dont know how long it will be until she releases her young, could be a while. I just noticed her, so I dont know how long she's been holding the eggs.

~Lori
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