Who's going out?

[big john]

hi guys! need a help again...

please help me decide on who's going out on the tank?  I love and enjoy watching all my fishes and inverts in a 20g high planted tank but I know I'm way over-stocked! I now understand that over-stocking in the long run does no good for the inhabitants as well as for my plants. so please help me decide to have a properly stocked tank... here's my tank load...

6 cardinal tetra's
3 neon tetra's
4 dwarf gourami's
5 guppies
2 blackskirt tetra (originally 6 but 4 already removed)
2 SAE (temporary only to fight algea)
2 nerite snails
3 ghost shrimps

I love all of them but I know I must choose...

thanks in advance...











 

[Stella G]

I'm glad to hear you'll be rehoming some of your fish.  They will be healthier and have less stress once you get the stocking under control.  A 20 gallon high can be tough to stock because people always want to put more fish in there than they should.  Proper stocking for your tank would be as follows:

1 Dwarf Gourami
1 school of small tetra - your 6 cardinal tetras would be perfect (you can probably keep your 3 neons as well, as they are similar enough to school with the cardinals)
    (OR you could keep your guppies and rehome the tetras)
Your 2 Nerite Snails
Your 3 Ghost Shrimp (you could increase the number here if you would like)

If you correct your stocking I suspect your algae issue will also improve.  Often algae issues creep up with poor water quality caused by overstocking.  Be careful not to keep the SAEs in the 20 for too long.  They grow quickly and stunt easily.  As I said, hopefully you won't need them once the stocking is improved. 

[Karen]

The 2 black skirts go first!

Its not fair to keep them with out a school anyway.

Next is at least 2 and probably 3 of those gouramis.

[big john]

yeah thats what i'm really worried about on over stocking, that's what was always on my mind. it really contributes to algae growth...

i'll get the black tetra out and the SAE's coz the algae is depleting now... maybe the shrimps will took care of that!
I'll get the guppies out also coz I prefer to keep the gourami's and really enjoy watching them.

I think that's enough... what you think?

thanks guys...

[Karen]

Gouramis are territorial.  I really don't think you can keep 4 together.  I don't know much about the individual needs of each species though, perhaps your type is ok in groups.  Some one will answer I am sure.

Stella have already said to rehome 3 of them... must be she agrees with me.

[big john]

I'm also aware that they are territorial and i've been observing them always since I got them. i'll just try keeping them atleast just for now and observe their behavior. as for now the 4 gourami's get well along each other w/o any signs of aggression mayb also bec. their still young about 5 mnths old i think. about 1.5" in lenght. I have them for 3 mnths now.

If time comes that they start picking each other then its time to get the net...

[Stella G]

John, I understand the desire to keep all of your gouramis.  They are a great fish.  However, the reason that yours are getting along now is because they are immature fish.  Once mature, I can pretty much guarantee that you will have issues.  The territory requirements for a single male dwarf gourami is 20 gallons.  Notice that I said "requirement."  For your fish to thrive, it really is necessary to provide for their territorial needs.  Waiting for the problems to start is a bad idea, in my opinion.  Odds are good that your fish won't wait for you to be watching to misbehave.  Odds are also good that you'll end up with one or more dead fish.  At the very least you'll end up with seriously stressed or injured fish.  I strongly recommend acting sooner rather than later.

Another thing to consider is the fact that fish that are not kept in proper conditions (ie: overstocked tank) do not exhibit natural behaviors.  They are too busy constantly trying to get out of each others faces to just be themselves.  This could be why yours seem to get along in your overstocked tank.

Ultimately the choice is yours, but I think you may be playing with fire. 

[Karen]

Reactive vs proactive.....

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

You are being informed that what you are doing will go sour by people with more experience and expertise than you can even imagine.  It will go sour, and yet you are intentionally choosing to allow it to do so before you correct the problem?!?!?!

Clearly they are your fish and the choice is yours, but it would be nice if you would be a responsible pet owner and meet the needs of your fish.  Allowing them to kill each other is NOT meeting the needs of your fish, its meeting the needs of the fish keeper.

Keeping 4 territorial fish together is meeting your needs.  Keeping 1 per tank is meeting their needs. 

[big john]

that explains a lot! thanks stella and karen for the real concern of my situation. i'm really impressed here in badman's getting real professional advices and you guys are great! ok! I'll take your words... 3 gourami's going out...

now in my tank are...

6 cardinals (can I add a little more about 3 cardinals?)
3 neons (or adding 3 more neons to complete the group, is it ok?)
4 guppies
1 dwarf gourami
3 ghost shrimps
2 nerite snails

Also my algae issues are gone now... as I lighten up my load also algae's starts depleting...
thanks again...

[Stella G]

If you were rehoming the guppies, then I would say OK to adding 3 more neons.  Since you are keeping them I wouldn't add a thing.  That's still a pretty heavy bioload, even though I'm sure it seems like a drastic reduction to you.  If your neons are not schooling with the cardinals and you are concerned about them, you could always set up a 10 gallon tank just for a school of neons.  Stick around here long enough and we'll goad you into having far too many tanks just like the rest of us. 

[big john]

yeah your pretty right... i'm absolutely planning to have another tank or maybe tanks to rehome others... lol...

thanks...