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Author Topic: Ocean Nutrition  (Read 8766 times)
jerryfox
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« on: January 21, 2014, 08:04:06 PM »

Does any member ever use Ocean Nutrition Products when feeding your fish? Thanks
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2014, 09:26:07 PM »

Is there a particular frozen or dry formula you have in mind?
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« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2014, 07:44:02 PM »

Is there a particular frozen or dry formula you have in mind?
Algae wafers I am thinking about.
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« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2014, 08:09:37 PM »

Ocean Nutrition - Here are the ingredients listed in order. Generally, it could be assumed that the ingredients listed first are higher percentages of the actual contents. I noticed Spirulina is listed 10th in line.

Fish meal, soybean meal, wheat flour, broken rice, kelp meal, alfalfa, brewers yeast, salmon oil, wheat gluten, Spirulina, lecithin, minerals, vitamins [ascorbic acid (vita C), alpha-tocopherol acetate (vit E), vitamin A, pantothenic acid, pyridoxine (vit B2), folic acid, retinol (vita A), cholecalciferol (vit D3), biotin, cyanocobalamin (vita B12), menadione sodium bisulfite (vita K3)], amino acids and calcium propionate (preservative), potassium sorbate (preservative), ethoxyquin (preservative).

Crude Protein (min.) — 34.2%
Crude Fat (min.) — 4%
Crude Fiber (max.) — 4%
Moisture (max.) — 9.6%


One positive is that I tested a couple of other brands and their ash content was much higher- up to 17%.
Ash (max.) — 9%

Omega One Veggie Rounds:

Ingredients:

Whole Kelp, Spirulina, Whole Salmon, Halibut, Seafood Mix (Including Krill, Whole Herring, & Shrimp), Wheat flour, Wheat Gluten, Lecithin, Astaxanthin, L-Ascorbyl-2-Phosphate (Source of Vitamin C), Natural and Artificial Colors, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Folic Acid, Biotin, Inositol, Tocopherol (Preservative),Ethoxyquin (Preservative).
Guaranteed Analysis:

Min. Crude Protein….34%
Min. Crude Fat……….8%
Max. Crude Fiber…….6%
Max. Moisture………. 8.5%
Max. Ash……………..15%
Min. Phosphorus…...(0.5% )
Min. Omega 3 ………. 2%
Min. Omega 6…………1%

Hikari Algae Wafers:

White fish meal, wheat flour, wheat-germ meal, alpha starch, dehydrated alfalfa meal, soybean meal, fish oil, brewer's dried yeast, shrimp meal, spirulina, salt, carotene, monopotassium phosphate, vitamin A, vitamin D3, vitamin E, Vitamin K3, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, niacin, pantothenic acid, pyridoxine, biotin, folic acid, inositol, choline chloride, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (stabilized vitamin C), magnesium sulfate, manganese sulfate, zinc sulfate, iron sulfate, calcium iodate, cobalt sulfate, aluminum hydroxide.

Guaranteed Analysis %:
Crude Protein (minimum) 32
Moisture (maximum) 10
Crude Fiber (maximum) 5
Crude Fat (minimum) 4

Aluminum hydroxide? Does your fish burp? Ever get acid reflux?

Here is a link for Wardley's Premium Algae Discs:

http://www.oscarfish.com/2-star-foods/291-wardley-premium-algae-disks-ingredients-analysis.html

HBH Algae Grazers link:

http://www.oscarfish.com/4-star-foods/217-hbh-algae-grazers-ingredients-analysis.html

Sorry, I just got tired of copy and paste. After all, this is your hobby also. Check some these out and let Google be your friend too.

Oh, and final note for Bristlenose keepers...They have a long gut, so go easy on the protein  happy



* BCA02.jpg (2.99 KB, 76x70 - viewed 332 times.)
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2014, 09:12:35 PM »

When looking at a feed to determine if its a good quality feed or not, look at its first 5-8 ingredients.  Fish are aquatic creatures, their digestive tracts are evolved to digest other aquatic things.  Proteins, specifically need to be aquatic in origin for fish to properly digest and utilize them. 

If the protein in your fish feed comes from "hydrolized feathers" or something similar...stay clear.  It might indeed contain 35% protein, but that protein is completely indigestible.

This feed has 4 of its top 10 ingredients coming from aquatic origins.  That is a good sign.
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2014, 10:26:32 PM »

When choosing foods I also look a whether the seafood protein source is whole fish or or fish meal ..
 Fish meal can easily be just be  ground up heads, guts, scales and  bones.... left overs from fish processing canning plants.

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« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 11:32:16 AM »

Belinda, if the fish food industry is the same as the dog and cat industry, fish meal is simply dried fish flesh. By products are the words to be wary of since they indicate that it could be from any part of the animal like you noted. In dog or cat food, meal is a good thing since there is more protein in dried meat than in fresh per weight because fresh includes water weight.
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« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 07:59:35 PM »

When looking at a feed to determine if its a good quality feed or not, look at its first 5-8 ingredients.  Fish are aquatic creatures, their digestive tracts are evolved to digest other aquatic things.  Proteins, specifically need to be aquatic in origin for fish to properly digest and utilize them. 

If the protein in your fish feed comes from "hydrolized feathers" or something similar...stay clear.  It might indeed contain 35% protein, but that protein is completely indigestible.

This feed has 4 of its top 10 ingredients coming from aquatic origins.  That is a good sign.
Thank You for this information. I use right now SERA VIPA CHIPS. The ash is 5.9% Crude Protein is 39.3% This is made in Germany.
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« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2014, 09:16:19 PM »

Marv,

Can you list the ingredients and percentages for that? I haven't been able to find it. Thanks.
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« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2014, 06:04:12 AM »

The ingredients list is where the real information is.

Danni and Belinda, you are both right.  Fishmeal is scraps left over at the end of the shift of a fish processing plant, shredded and dried.  It contains the fish that fell on the floor, it contains heads, guts, bones, skin and the rotten bits that weren't fit for the job at hand.

It is indeed high in protein and lipds, and a very digestible protein at that.  However it completely lacks any other nutritional value.  All minerals, vitamins and nutrients are denatured and destroyed in the drying process.  That is why it is so important to add the vitamins in later in the feed maknufacturing process.

Whole fish won't be striped of its nutrients.

You have to watch the different between nutrients and digestible nutrients.  Vit C comes in 3 or 4 different variations, the cheap ones aren't capable of being absorbed by our tissues.  Just like proteins, its not the "total protein" that matters, it the total absorbable protein and quite frankly the amino acid profile is even more important.  Testing for the amino acid profile is expensive... not even out own Ed of "Almost Natural Foods" has taken the time and expense to test for an amino acid profile.  

Claiming the protein is 35% is about as good as saying a cardboard box contains 200 calories.  You can't digest cardboard and you can't digest chicken feathers....so what's that protein REALLY made of?
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« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2014, 09:50:19 AM »

Good info Karen. Thank you for the explanation. Here is the info where I was basing my statement on. Mind you, this is for dog food.

AAFCO Definitions:

"Meat meal is the rendered product from mammal tissues, exclusive of any added blood, hair, hoof, horn, hide trimmings, manure, stomach and rumen contents except in such amounts as may occur unavoidably in good processing practices. It shall not contain added extraneous materials not provided for by this definition.The Calcium (Ca) level shall not exceed the actual level of Phosphorus (P) by more than 2.2 times. It shall not contain more than 12% Pepsin indigestible residue and not more than 9% of the crude protein in the product shall be pepsin indigestible. The label shall include guarantees for minimum crude protein, minimum crude fat, maximum crude fiber, minimum Phosphorus (P) and minimum and maximum Calcium (Ca). If the product bears a name descriptive of its kind, composition or origin, it must correspond thereto."

"Poultry meal is the dry rendered product from a combination of clean flesh and skin with or without accompanying bone, derived from the parts of whole carcasses of poultry or a combination thereof, exclusive of feathers, heads, feet, and entrails.It shall be suitable for use in animal food. If it bears a name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond thereto."

"Fish meal is the clean, dried, ground tissue of undecomposed whole fish or fish cuttings, either or both, with or without the extraction of part of the oil. If it contains more than 3% salt (NaCl), the amount of salt must constitute a part of the product name, provided that in no case must the salt content of this product exceed 7%. The label shall include guarantees for minimum crude protein, minimum crude fat, maximum crude fiber, minimum Phosphorus (p) and minimum and maximum calcium (Ca). If it bears a name descriptive of its kind, it must correspond thereto."

Pros
* Contributes a more concentrated amount of animal protein to a product since it contains only about 10% moisture, making the food more species appropriate. * No limit on the amount that can be used in a food formula, which permits the creation of high-protein, low-carb dry foods.

Cons:
* More processed than fresh meat, already cooked and dried once before added to kibble "dough" and cooked again.

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« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2014, 08:03:05 PM »

Marv,

Can you list the ingredients and percentages for that? I haven't been able to find it. Thanks.
Ingredients:fish meal, wheat flower,corn starch,wheat germ meal,whole egg powder,brewers yeast,milk powder,krill meal,fish oil, herbs,alfalfa,stinging nette meal,sea algae meal,parsley,paprika,spinach meal,spiralina green-lipped mussel meal,carrots, garlic, colorants fd and c red#3.I listed the % above. Thanks Crude Fiber 6.6% moisture 6.4% crude ash 5.9%
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« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 10:29:20 PM »

I have two other algae wafer/disc info to share and compare with the others listed. I got these from company websites.

Aqueon Algae Rounds

Guaranteed Analysis:   
Crude Protein (min).....35%
Crude Fat (min) ..............5%
Crude Fiber (max)...........5%
Moisture (max).................9%
Phosphorus (min)...........1%

Ingredients

Whole Fish Meal (Whole salmon, herring & other mixed fishes), Whole Wheat Flour, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Spirulina, Soybean Meal, Whole Dried Krill, Kelp Meal, Wheat Gluten Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Fish Oil, Spinach, Garlic, Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Calcium, Propionate (a preservative), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin A, Acetate, Cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Menadione Sodium Bisulphite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (B6), Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, DL-Alphatocopherol (E), Manganese Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate.


NorthFin Kelp Wafers

Ingredients: Kelp, Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, High Omega-3 (DHA), Herring Meal, Whole Sardine Meal, Wheat Flour,  Spirulina, Garlic, Astaxanthin (Haematococcus Algae), Calcium Montmorillonite Clay, Vitamin A Acetate, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphospate (Source of Vitamin C), D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), DL Alphatocopherol (E), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Thiamine, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Selenium, Zinc.

Guaranteed Analysis:

    Crude Protein (Min) : 33%
    Crude Fat (Min):         4%
    Crude Fiber (Max):      5%
    Moisture (Max):          9%
    Ash (Max):                 12%


Also from NorthFin is further info on their ingredients.

Information on Our main ingredients:

Antarctic Krill

Antarctic Krill are a type of shrimp-like marine invertebrate animal. Each krill consists of about 15% high qualityprotein containing vital amino acids and about 3% fat and vitamins. It supplies minerals such as iron, phosphorus, and calcium. It is human consumption grade.
Krill is a source of natural carotenoids. Over 95% of the pigments present in krill are in the form of asthaxantin. Asthaxantine is not only a natural pigment, but also functions as a photoprotector and antioxidant. Furthermore, it has been proved that asthaxantine has an effect in rates of growth and immunomodulation of both fish and shrimp.
Antarctic Krill are caught in the clear Antarctic Ocean and are processed within one hour and packed onboard specially equipped ships to ensure its freshness, taste and superlative quality.

High Omega-3 Herring Meal (Certified)

High Omega-3 Herring Meal is the highest grade fish meal. This Special Product has a higher concentration of DHA. Prepared from herring Clupea harengus (Atlantic herring). Freshly caught and frozen in minutes on well maintained Canadian ships, on arrival to port all catch is processed in around two hours.

Whole Sardine Meal

The sardine, is an ocean going fish well known for traveling in large groups, or schools. The sardine is related to the herring, and sometimes small fish labeled as sardine is actually herring. The sardine is widely fished in the Pacific and Atlantic.

Whole Kelp (Organic Certified)

Kelp is a type of marine seaweed. Seaweeds come in three different color varieties, red, green and brown. Kelp meal on average supplies around 60 minerals, 21 amino acids and 12 vitamins. Kelp also provides sources of nitrogen and potassium, micro-nutrients, carbohydrates and essential plant hormones.
The regular use of Kelp as a feed supplement helps increase the utilization of all ingredients in a complete feed ration, improving the overall health and performance of your fish.

Spirulina

Spirulina is 100% natural and a highly nutritious micro water plant. Spirulina contains rich vegetable protein and multi Vitamins. It also contains a wide range of minerals (including Iron, Potassium, Magnesium Sodium, Phosphorus, Calcium etc.), a high volume of Beta- carotene high volumes of gamma-Linolein Further, Spirulina contains Phycocyanin which can only be found in Spirulina.

Garlic

Some of the Garlic properties and benefits in the fish food:  increasing appetite/ flavor, boosting  immune system, anti-parasitic guard.

Astaxanthin (Haematococcus Algae)

Haematococcus microalgae supplies an extremely rich source of astaxanthin in a matrix of carotenoids. Animals pigmented with Astaxanthin take on a more natural even coloration.

Calcium Montmorillonite Clay

Calcium Montmorillonite Clay is reported to contain no less than 67 minerals.  This impressive assortment of minerals includes calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium, manganese, and silica as well as trace elements, those appearing in very tiny amounts. The mineral content being extremely high sets the stage for replenishing dietary deficiencies.

Vitamins and minerals Formulated specifically for ornamental fish.




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« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2014, 08:29:09 PM »

I have two other algae wafer/disc info to share and compare with the others listed. I got these from company websites.

Aqueon Algae Rounds

Guaranteed Analysis:   
Crude Protein (min).....35%
Crude Fat (min) ..............5%
Crude Fiber (max)...........5%
Moisture (max).................9%
Phosphorus (min)...........1%

Ingredients

Whole Fish Meal (Whole salmon, herring & other mixed fishes), Whole Wheat Flour, Dehydrated Alfalfa Meal, Spirulina, Soybean Meal, Whole Dried Krill, Kelp Meal, Wheat Gluten Meal, Corn Gluten Meal, Fish Oil, Spinach, Garlic, Dicalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Calcium, Propionate (a preservative), L-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate (source of vitamin C), Vitamin A, Acetate, Cholecalciferol (source of vitamin D3), Riboflavin Supplement, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Niacin, Menadione Sodium Bisulphite Complex (source of vitamin K activity), Folic Acid, Thiamine, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (B6), Calcium Pantothenate, Biotin, DL-Alphatocopherol (E), Manganese Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate.


NorthFin Kelp Wafers

Ingredients: Kelp, Whole Antarctic Krill Meal, High Omega-3 (DHA), Herring Meal, Whole Sardine Meal, Wheat Flour,  Spirulina, Garlic, Astaxanthin (Haematococcus Algae), Calcium Montmorillonite Clay, Vitamin A Acetate, L-Ascorby-2-Polyphospate (Source of Vitamin C), D-Activated Animal-Sterol (D3), DL Alphatocopherol (E), Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Thiamine, Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Folic Acid, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Cobalt Sulfate, Ferrous Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Selenium, Zinc.

Guaranteed Analysis:

    Crude Protein (Min) : 33%
    Crude Fat (Min):         4%
    Crude Fiber (Max):      5%
    Moisture (Max):          9%
    Ash (Max):                 12%


Also from NorthFin is further info on their ingredients.

Information on Our main ingredients:

Antarctic Krill

Antarctic Krill are a type of shrimp-like marine invertebrate animal. Each krill consists of about 15% high qualityprotein containing vital amino acids and about 3% fat and vitamins. It supplies minerals such as iron, phosphorus, and calcium. It is human consumption grade.
Krill is a source of natural carotenoids. Over 95% of the pigments present in krill are in the form of asthaxantin. Asthaxantine is not only a natural pigment, but also functions as a photoprotector and antioxidant. Furthermore, it has been proved that asthaxantine has an effect in rates of growth and immunomodulation of both fish and shrimp.
Antarctic Krill are caught in the clear Antarctic Ocean and are processed within one hour and packed onboard specially equipped ships to ensure its freshness, taste and superlative quality.

High Omega-3 Herring Meal (Certified)

High Omega-3 Herring Meal is the highest grade fish meal. This Special Product has a higher concentration of DHA. Prepared from herring Clupea harengus (Atlantic herring). Freshly caught and frozen in minutes on well maintained Canadian ships, on arrival to port all catch is processed in around two hours.

Whole Sardine Meal

The sardine, is an ocean going fish well known for traveling in large groups, or schools. The sardine is related to the herring, and sometimes small fish labeled as sardine is actually herring. The sardine is widely fished in the Pacific and Atlantic.

Whole Kelp (Organic Certified)

Kelp is a type of marine seaweed. Seaweeds come in three different color varieties, red, green and brown. Kelp meal on average supplies around 60 minerals, 21 amino acids and 12 vitamins. Kelp also provides sources of nitrogen and potassium, micro-nutrients, carbohydrates and essential plant hormones.
The regular use of Kelp as a feed supplement helps increase the utilization of all ingredients in a complete feed ration, improving the overall health and performance of your fish.

Spirulina

Spirulina is 100% natural and a highly nutritious micro water plant. Spirulina contains rich vegetable protein and multi Vitamins. It also contains a wide range of minerals (including Iron, Potassium, Magnesium Sodium, Phosphorus, Calcium etc.), a high volume of Beta- carotene high volumes of gamma-Linolein Further, Spirulina contains Phycocyanin which can only be found in Spirulina.

Garlic

Some of the Garlic properties and benefits in the fish food:  increasing appetite/ flavor, boosting  immune system, anti-parasitic guard.

Astaxanthin (Haematococcus Algae)

Haematococcus microalgae supplies an extremely rich source of astaxanthin in a matrix of carotenoids. Animals pigmented with Astaxanthin take on a more natural even coloration.

Calcium Montmorillonite Clay

Calcium Montmorillonite Clay is reported to contain no less than 67 minerals.  This impressive assortment of minerals includes calcium, iron, magnesium, potassium, manganese, and silica as well as trace elements, those appearing in very tiny amounts. The mineral content being extremely high sets the stage for replenishing dietary deficiencies.

Vitamins and minerals Formulated specifically for ornamental fish.





What is the most important thing I should look at when buying these products? Thanks
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« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2014, 08:35:17 PM »

"What is the most important thing I should look at when buying these products? Thanks"

Since you quoted Belinda's reply, I believe that they all pretty good. So the the most important thing I can think to look for when buying is the price tag.
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« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2014, 10:16:02 PM »

"What is the most important thing I should look at when buying these products? Thanks"

Since you quoted Belinda's reply, I believe that they all pretty good. So the the most important thing I can think to look for when buying is the price tag.
Best solution yet. Price. thanks
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« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2014, 04:37:13 AM »

Jerry,
  Look at the top ingredients, are several of the first few from aquatic origins?  In the two feeds Belinda posted the second feed passes that test better than the first.  however a second thing to look at is the origin of the nutrients.  While both feeds have a lengthy list of nutritional supplementation, the first list has a more impressive source of nutrients.  Whole fish, whole wheat, spinach, garlic and fish oil are all part of the nutritional value of that feed.  The second feed is using a nutritionally rich clay and a long list of chemicals.

If a feed manufacturer wants to claim their feed contains a lengthy list of different vitamins, they need to add them in, and so they do.  If they don't want to make the claim, no need to add them in.  Adding in more natural sources of the vitamins makes it far more likely that the vitamins are actually digestible and utilizable by the animal eating the feed.  For example, I could consume ferrous sulfate as a source of iron, or I could eat spinach.  Guess which is a better source of iron my body can actually use?  Chewing on my car bumper will get me as much digestible iron as eating ferrous sulfate, yet both of those feeds contain it!

In the ingredients list you posted I see 2 things that stand out.  The first ingredient is aquatic.  However, its the only of the first 8 that is!  The second thing its list of ingredients is almost all natural, easily digested and utilizable stuff --> that is enough for me to forgive the lack of aquatic origination of a lot of it.  All of the major protein contributions are coming from aquatic organisms.  However, it doesn't' list the % that is protein?  why not, that has my attention?

Price is a good "final qualifier" when choosing a feed, but don't let it start the decision making process.  Good food isn't cheap to make!
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« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2014, 08:06:28 PM »

Jerry,
  Look at the top ingredients, are several of the first few from aquatic origins?  In the two feeds Belinda posted the second feed passes that test better than the first.  however a second thing to look at is the origin of the nutrients.  While both feeds have a lengthy list of nutritional supplementation, the first list has a more impressive source of nutrients.  Whole fish, whole wheat, spinach, garlic and fish oil are all part of the nutritional value of that feed.  The second feed is using a nutritionally rich clay and a long list of chemicals.

If a feed manufacturer wants to claim their feed contains a lengthy list of different vitamins, they need to add them in, and so they do.  If they don't want to make the claim, no need to add them in.  Adding in more natural sources of the vitamins makes it far more likely that the vitamins are actually digestible and utilizable by the animal eating the feed.  For example, I could consume ferrous sulfate as a source of iron, or I could eat spinach.  Guess which is a better source of iron my body can actually use?  Chewing on my car bumper will get me as much digestible iron as eating ferrous sulfate, yet both of those feeds contain it!

In the ingredients list you posted I see 2 things that stand out.  The first ingredient is aquatic.  However, its the only of the first 8 that is!  The second thing its list of ingredients is almost all natural, easily digested and utilizable stuff --> that is enough for me to forgive the lack of aquatic origination of a lot of it.  All of the major protein contributions are coming from aquatic organisms.  However, it doesn't' list the % that is protein?  why not, that has my attention?

Price is a good "final qualifier" when choosing a feed, but don't let it start the decision making process.  Good food isn't cheap to make!
Thanks for all the information you gave me here. SERA is the company which comes from Germany and they are in business 40 years.
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