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Goldfish with large white spot

Badmans Tropical Fish Message Center: archive: Goldfish with large white spot
  

Jennifer Hill

Friday, August 31, 2001 - 11:22 am
I have a fan tail I am keeping in a pond and it has a white spot on one side of its head that goes from its mouth to around its eye. I have had the fish for several months already and the other fish do not seam to have this. I treated the tank for two days with a teaspoon of non iodised salt for each of the thirty five gallons. I did this once in the morning and then at night. the fish is not getting any worse. Before I tryed the salt treatment I used an ich medication, but the spot is only in the one area so I don't think its ich, but it also does not look too much like photos of fungus I have found. Ps I have baby fish in a lower tank that had pumped water back up from a water fall. I have removed this hose but should I still treat both tanks since I have four 8inch adults and about fifty SMALL babies in a 125 gallon pond, since they had shared water?

  

G

Friday, August 31, 2001 - 12:11 pm
Its hard to tell exactly what your fish might have. The colors/patterns of some goldfish change as the fish grow, so there is the slight possibility that your fish might have just lost the color in that area, although the fish usually lose the white over the other colors. It may be some sort of bacterial infection. Take a look at pictures of different types of bacterial infections and see if they look anything like what your fish has. If you see any red streaking in the fins, or anything that looks like an open wound, that's probably a bacterial infection. Remember, if you do have a bacterial infection, you need anti-biotics to heal the fish. Ich medications only kill some parasites, but do not work on bacterial infections, or anything except ich for the most part. FYI: ich is very small white dots, it almost looks like it has small crystals of salt or sugar stuck to the fish. As far as salt goes, you never need to add salt more than once, unless you've done a water change. Salt stays in the water once its added, it doesn't break down or evaporate. The only way to remove salt is by removing water from the tank. With each water change, you dilute the concentration of salt in the water. When adding salt after a water change, only enough salt for the amount of water you replaced. For example, if you take out 15 gallons of water and replace it, only add enough salt for 15 gallons.
As far as treating both tanks, I would wait until I figure out what is wrong with the fish, and wait to see if any of the other fish appear to be sick.
Hope this was of some help. I'm sure some other people will post other possibilities I hadn't thought of.

  

Jennifer

Friday, August 31, 2001 - 02:02 pm
Thankyou for the info. I am really sure it is not a color change since the area was minimally cotton like before I added the salt. It might be mouth fungus, but I thought it was odd that the fish only had it on the one side and that it extended from the mouth and up around the one eye. I did not notice any red or any other marks on the rest of its body.

  

Jennifer

Friday, August 31, 2001 - 04:20 pm
I just found a photo of a fish with a spot like mine the book said it was fungus, I think I was stumped since it was only on the face. What do I do to treat it and sould I treat the other tank.

  

Kick

Saturday, September 01, 2001 - 12:10 am
Goldfish do, indeed, like a "little" salt in the water, but if you have added 70 teaspoons of salt to 35 gallons of water twice, you have added way too much. The rule of thumb ordinarily with salt is l tablespoon per 5 gallons of water and do this only one time unless you have done a water change per G's advise. You are creating a very high salinity value that can actually burn freshwater fish.

I would do a water change even tho this is a pond to remove some of the salt. Then I would treat with anti-fungal medication made especially for ponds along with a mild dose of antibitoic to head off any bacteria that may occur from the fungal infection. An idea arrangemnt would be to remove this particular fish to its own quarters for treatment, but this may not be possible. A true fungal infection will look like a growth of cotton. If this is just a white marking or coloration of the scales, I would have to agree with G that it is just the fish changing colors as he is aging. I once had a plain comet "gold" fish. He lived for a very long time, but in his 3rd year, he gradually started changing colors and eventually my goldfish was completely "white" in color.

Just be absolutely sure if you can that you are using the right treatment for the right disease if, indeed, there is one.

  

G

Saturday, September 01, 2001 - 01:18 am
If you still have trouble identifying what exactly it is, and the fish doesn't seem to be getting better, try taking it in to your local LFS.
We have people bring in sick fish for us to look at on a regular basis where I work. Its nice for both the customer, and the employee, as it takes the guess work out of what is wrong with the fish.
Some people have even brought in digital cameras, polaroids, and one gentleman brought in a video of his sick fish.
If you have a dependable fish store near by, it might not be a bad idea.
Remember, true fungus is very cottony, there is a type of bacterial infection that resembles a fungus, but is less cottony than a true fungus infection (it is commonly referred to as a fungus, unfortunately). If the fungus is only in one place, its possible that the fish simply scraped that part of its head on a rock, pot, or some other decoration/piece of equipment in the pond. This could especially be true if all of your other fish appear to be fine, and you have no problems with water quality.

Good advice for ANYONE who owns fish is to keep in mind that fish generally get sick for a reason. In order to help cure the problem, and keep it from happening again, the problem needs to be identified and taken care of. Just as a hint, a lot of diseases are caused by stress, which I find can be linked to deteriorating (poor) water quality, among other things.
I'll stop now before I start going into great detail.
Hope this helps.

  

Jennifer

Saturday, September 01, 2001 - 12:34 pm
Now I feel bad about adding the salt, but I was following dirrections in a goldfish book That had lots of disesaes and treatments listed. I was considering seperating the fish, but I did not have a hospital tank set up, and there is only one other fish in with the sick one, so I thought if it might be contagious that i should treat both. They are always near each other. I also cosidered the pet store, but in the past when my other fish bred I asked their "specialist" and it was a guy who did not know much. The spot deffinatly looked a little cotton like but not as much as all of the phots I have been finding. I I am sure he is not changing colors since I have seen this before when one of my older ones lost her gold spots and went totally white. The other thing G mentioned was that the fish could have scraped its self. I did give the fish in both ponds a cement cinder block so they could hide from cats, and so the white ones would not sun burn. The water is clear as can be and I keep all of the debris out of the pond. The spot does look slightly cotton like, but like G mentioned not as cotton like maybe as a true fungus. I have had most of the fish for the last 6 or seven years and have never seen this. I have had all of the fish but two since April (excluding the new babies). So I don't beleive it was brought in by one of the fish. The bacterial infection that resembles a fungus sounds a lot like what this looks like It is slightly cotton like. Sould I treat the fish for just bacteria, or fungus or both. I would hate to lose this one. Thanks for all the help. I will do a water change asap to get the salt down. This is the first problem in 6 years, I would hate to lose a fish after this many years. Please give me any Ideas, and I would be glad to answere questions.

  

>kick

Saturday, September 01, 2001 - 01:53 pm
"I also cosidered the pet store, but in the past when my other fish bred I asked their "specialist" and it was a guy who did not know much."

Thank you Jennifer!!! This is a point I have been trying to stress to G. Most of the folks moderating aquarium messageboards have far more experience and knowledge than LPS personnel at any given store or any books that you might find available. Now on to your post.........

It is very hard to try to describe an illness over the boards. It is even harder to try to tell someone exactly what may be going on and how to treat. First on the agenda, do take care of the overabundance of salt. Secondly, if you think this may be columnaris or flexbacter, I would treat with antibiotic therapy. You will have to be the dectective here to decide which antibiotic and dosage is correct for a pond setting. I am sure factors of gallonage, temperature or other circumstances in a pond setting vary from an indoors aquarium. Since I am not well versed on ponds, I won't be of much help to you.

I think I proably would also treat with an antifungal medication, but here again, without being able to exactly determine the illness, what antibiotics are preferred and what antifungal medications are available for ponds, I can't really give you step by step instructions for treating.

You might be wise to search for a website or messageboard that deals stricty with ponds and outdoor situations. Someone more experienced with these will certainly have the valuable information to help you.

Keep us posted, if you will, on the outcome. Then you will be able to "teach" us something new.

  

Jennifer

Saturday, September 01, 2001 - 02:17 pm
Thank you soooo much for all of your ideas it has allowed me to look up photos and at least eliminate some of the possibilities. I will let you know what happens. I also posted a question on my gold fhis fry. Does anyone have experience with gold fish fry color?

  

Kick

Monday, September 03, 2001 - 12:34 am
I hope your fishie gets along okay. I used to keep goldfish, but had little experience with fry. I will say here that when I kept goldfish, their colors would change so my feeling it that they are okay and just changing colors as they get older. Be sure to let us know how the big guy gets along.

  

Jennifer

Monday, September 03, 2001 - 02:22 pm
Thanks a lot Kick! The sick one was treated with PENICILLIN made by Aquatronics. It says it works on Bacterial and fungal infections. She appears to be doing better. The product was for pond use so I think we got our best option.

The fry are different sizes and are changing colors all at different times. So far I have all calicos from one gold and one calico parent. Some of the fry are about two inches long and were all black, but are now turning gold in spots. Its really neat to watch. Thanks again!

  

Kick

Monday, September 03, 2001 - 05:23 pm
Jennifer, you are very welcome and so glad that we could help. I bet it really is neat watching those little guys grow and change. I was never lucky enough to have fry when I kept goldfish. I only kept two as they were pretty good size, so I imagine they were both the same sex. Keep us posted on how everything turns out for you.

 

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