Chat transcripts

[20:05 29/10/2004] <@craig> Good evening everyone! Welcome to Live! Fishchat!
[20:05 29/10/2004] <@craig> Tonight's guest speaker is Geoff from Badman's, his topic for the evening: L-numbers and Beyond.
[20:05 29/10/2004] <@craig> Geoff, when ever you are ready. :-)
[20:08 29/10/2004] <+Noname> The family Loricariidae is the largest known group in the catfish family. All members share certain traits, but what makes a member of this group a pleco? I will share this and more with you this evening, as I talk about one of my favourite groups of fish.
[20:08 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Before I start with facts, I would like to mention how I became a fan of sucker mouth catfish. It all started when I was planning my very first community aquarium; I wanted an interesting, diverse South American Biotope. I also read about the problems many people have with algae in their aquariums, after some research I discovered the clown pleco.
[20:09 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Well, my tank plans didn't go as I hoped they would, and I ended up with a mixed community, but my interest in interesting additions to my aquarium remained, and I checked all the local pet stores for clown plecos whenever I entered.
[20:09 29/10/2004] <+Noname> One day, I thought my search had ended when I found some small striped catfish in a tank listed as clown plecos, for what seemed to be an amazing price.
[20:09 29/10/2004] <+Noname> As my fish grew, I noticed the stripes disappear as a network like pattern developed. As these fish consumed all algae, and dominated the tank and all inhabitants as they grew, it became clear to me that these were not clown plecos.
[20:10 29/10/2004] <+Noname> The fish I ended up with, is likely Pterygoplichthys pardalis, which is one of the many, many fish listed as common pleco, or sometimes even just plecostomus catfish.
[20:10 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Here is a picture of the fish as a baby- http://hopewelt.com/chats/plecochat/pleco.jpg
[20:10 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Here is a very recent close up shot- http://hopewelt.com/chats/plecochat/detail.jpg
[20:11 29/10/2004] <+Noname> An interesting note. The scientific names for plecos seem to shuffle regularly. In the process of writing this article, I discovered the fish I believe I have has gone through a name change. I would like to direct people to planetcatfsih.com, which has a huge directory of species, with pictures, and the most recent updates on names available to my knowledge.
[20:11 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Although I was disappointed that I did not have fish that would be fine in a community aquarium of the size I had, I eventually grew fond of these fish. Out of all the fish I have owned, these seemed to appeal to me the most.
[20:12 29/10/2004] <+Noname> These fish had attitude, they would hide in wood, in caves, not caring about other fish, which they were sharing the area with. They would aggressively come out for food, although they were constantly eating the algae in the aquarium. They had nurse shark like bodies, and swimming styles, and they were strong, full bodies fish that just seemed amazing, interesting features, nice patterns, colour, amazing eyes, in my
[20:13 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Now, on to natural history. As I mentioned, the family Loricariidae is the largest member of the catfish family, with hundreds of species, and sub-species. They range many colours, shapes and sizes, from under two inches long, to over 4 feet in reported cases. All of them are native to South America, but have been introduced to many places all around the world, especially places where fish keeping is popular.
[20:14 29/10/2004] <+Noname> The term pleco, which has about a million pronunciations, as many of you probably know, actually technically refers to one species, Hypostomus plecostomus. In the time when some of the first tropical aquarium fish were imported, such as guppies, corydoras, etc, a fish described as Hypostomus plecostomus was introduced.
[20:14 29/10/2004] <+Noname> To this day, no one knows what exact species was imported, but, that was the one is was described as. As time went on, many more varieties of sucker mouth catfish were imported, and, as plecostomus was a difficult word for the main stream, the term pleco was coined.
[20:15 29/10/2004] <+Noname> For ease of import, and sale listing, and to probably increase sales, most fish imported after that first Hypostomus plecostomus, was labelled as a from of pleco, usually dependant on external appearance. Only fish such as Otocinclus, and Farlowella catfish, which had noticeable external differences from the basic pleco design, were given separate names.
[20:16 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Despite this name mix up, only certain fish, that seem to be more closely related than others, are labelled as L-numbers. In reality, the whole L-number thing began with a single German magazine trying to describe a newly discovered species, which had yet to be given a scientific or common name. This method of identification became common, and is now used in many publications.
[20:16 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Something common on planet catfish.com forums, and many other Internet publications, is "pl*co". This began when a person was discussing their pleco, and it died soon after. Superstition took hold, and "pl*co" was born, for 'some reason' (Side note- if you come across a similar pun for cichlid, this is a joke on the whole pl*co thing and has not real story)
[20:17 29/10/2004] <+Noname> I am going to end with a little care tips and a recap.
[20:17 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Unfortunately, Loricariids vary incredibly in terms of care. Some require a tank as small as 10 gallons, and some should probably never be kept in a home aquarium. Some can be quite aggressive, and some couldn't give a thought to another fish, and some, will not tolerate members of their own, or similar species.
[20:17 29/10/2004] <+Noname> More unfortunates, many plecos seem to develop different mindsets depending on how they are brought up. There are reports of common plecos getting lonely when tank mates of the same species die, and there are reports of plecos viciously killing members of their own species. And then there are speciÌLÌÊike autos, which almost need a small school, or shoal to thrive.
[20:18 29/10/2004] <+Noname> *otos
[20:18 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Water quality and habitat is also very varied, as some live in fast flowing rivers, and others live in low oxygen, still waters. They have adapted to almost every water habitat in South America, and some even have the ability to walk on land for a short time. Many need wood as a diet supplement, but almost all need some sort of retreat, be it wood, rock or plants.
[20:18 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Plecos gained fame for their algae eating abilities, although many are almost strictly carnivores. Please research each individual species you plan to purchase or receive, and give them what they need.
[20:19 29/10/2004] <+Noname> To my knowledge all Loricariids are egg layers, and many display parenting characteristics. But again, breeding habits vary on species.
[20:19 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Most catfish have the reputation for being nocturnal. However, if you look, you can find articles on the Internet, that this is not the case for plecos. In my personal opinion, this also varies on species and individual fish.
[20:20 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Just a small note before I wrap up, most f these fish produce a high, really high amount of waste for their weight. As such, over filtration should likely be used. Pleco waste will quickly build up, and removing most of it on a regular basis is usually needed.
[20:20 29/10/2004] <+Noname> *of
[20:20 29/10/2004] <+Noname> I believe there is a Loricariid for almost everyone, some are active, some are passive, and there are just so many variants. They range in price from dirt cheap for baby common plecos, to hundreds of dollars for fancy varieties, or rare species. One of my favourite fish, I hope, and am almost sure you all will get the chance to experience this family.
[20:21 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Thank you all, I would like to appologise for my spelling, and gramatical errors, aswell as the few cuts that ended up happening
[20:21 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> goeff, was an excellent presentation
[20:21 29/10/2004] <@craig> Good job Geoff!
[20:22 29/10/2004] <@craig> G, go ahead..
[20:22 29/10/2004] <+G> I was just curious if you could give a few examples of some of the more and less aggressive plecos that can be found with reasonable ease.
[20:24 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Well, aggression really depends on what you mean by that. A common pleco known as the "gibbi" pleco commonly, which may also be sold as the common pleco, is known for attacking its own kind and being territorial. This is the case with most plecos, teritory is very important
[20:24 29/10/2004] <+Noname> If you have a direct driftwood snag, or extensive rockwork setup for instance, aggression will most likily be minimized depending on the size of the fish, and size of the tank
[20:25 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Also, some of the easier to breed plecos like the bushynose, will become aggresive during breeding
[20:26 29/10/2004] <+Noname> The farlowella catfish is probably the least problimatic I have heard of when it comes to breeding, and aside from that, otos seldom do much more than accidentally suck on discus, which many pleco type fish do sometimes
[20:28 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Thank you for mentioning that, I should mention, that these fish do sometimes suck on flat bodies fish, usually if they are underfed. They also eat decaying matter, and, many newcomers to the hobby often think their pleco has killed and eaten the fish, this is usually not the case
[20:29 29/10/2004] <@craig> If anyone has a question for Geoff, type: /query craig I have a question
[20:29 29/10/2004] <+G> How about mixing different species of plecos, is it generally a good or bad idea?
[20:29 29/10/2004] <@craig> You'll be next in line after G is done. :-)
[20:30 29/10/2004] <+Noname> This can be risky, but many people has set up pleco-themed tanks, so it is definatly not impossible. You should always keep in mind the natural habitat, and the fish's general habits and requirements though
[20:31 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Also, mixing a species that looks like one of the aggresive, larger common species, like the gibbis, is not a smart idea
[20:32 29/10/2004] <+Noname> In this case, hiding spaces, and boundries become all the more important
[20:33 29/10/2004] <+Noname> I hope that answers your question, ^_^
[20:33 29/10/2004] <+G> Yep, good enough for me
[20:33 29/10/2004] <@craig> Anyone else? Come on now, don't be shy.. :-)
[20:34 29/10/2004] <@craig> k, I'll just open the floor..
[20:34 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> **Applause**
[20:34 29/10/2004] <+Noname> *smirk*
[20:34 29/10/2004] * @Jessica hoots Go Plecos!!
[20:35 29/10/2004] <@craig> Sorry, if I seem a little off the mark tonight folks, typing is an issue this evening.
[20:35 29/10/2004] <+Noname> No problem
[20:36 29/10/2004] <@craig> My farlowella seems to land on my common pleco from time to time.. And the common lets it go, when he's had enough everyone in the tank knows it.
[20:36 29/10/2004] <+Noname> heheheh
[20:37 29/10/2004] <G> How about hybridization Noname...any reports of different species breeding in captivity?
[20:39 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Things like different subspecies of bushynose is common,
[20:39 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Many fancy plecos are very expensive though, and anyone who breeds them puts in effort to insure no hybridization occurs
[20:41 29/10/2004] <+Noname> There may be other hybrids out there, but, none on a mass scale, and none that are for sale as actual hybrids, like Retail/tiger catfish, or Florida gars,
[20:41 29/10/2004] <+Noname> *redtail
[20:41 29/10/2004] <G> yeah, those redtail/tiger cats are rediculous
[20:43 29/10/2004] <+Noname> The two fish shouldnt be avaliable to the public in my opinion to begin with
[20:43 29/10/2004] <+Noname> but that could be a whole other chat, ^_^
[20:44 29/10/2004] <G> Yeah, I agree with that
[20:45 29/10/2004] <G> same with Pacu
[20:46 29/10/2004] <+Noname> There would come the problem of drawing the line though, how big would be to big?
[20:46 29/10/2004] <@craig> I was just thinking about the mix of plecos in my 75..
[20:47 29/10/2004] <@craig> Large common, rubberlip and a clown pleco.
[20:47 29/10/2004] <+Noname> Cool craig, ever thought of Royals? They are expensive, but, they sure do look unique
[20:47 29/10/2004] <@craig> No, I haven't..
[20:47 29/10/2004] <@craig> The 55 is better tho..
[20:47 29/10/2004] <+Noname> ah
[20:47 29/10/2004] <@craig> 3-spot, gold nugget and a large rubberlip. ;-)
[20:48 29/10/2004] <+Noname> how big is your rubberlip?
[20:48 29/10/2004] <@craig> The 2 larges one I have are well over 3 inches.
[20:48 29/10/2004] <+Noname> cool
[20:49 29/10/2004] * @craig counts rubberlips
[20:49 29/10/2004] <+Noname> lol
[20:49 29/10/2004] <@craig> I have 5 of them total..
[20:49 29/10/2004] <+Noname> they sound like cool fish
[20:49 29/10/2004] <@craig> They are the clowns of the pleco family, honestly.
[20:50 29/10/2004] <@craig> In relation to body mass, they have the largest mouths of just about any pleco I have seen.
[20:50 29/10/2004] <+Noname> heheh
[20:50 29/10/2004] <@craig> And the output of a pleco 10 times their size. :-D
[20:51 29/10/2004] <+Noname> LOl
[20:51 29/10/2004] <+Noname> I think all pleco owners believe that
[20:51 29/10/2004] <@craig> Believe what?
[20:52 29/10/2004] <+Noname> That their plecos produce more waste than pysically possible
[20:52 29/10/2004] <+Noname> My plecos have never been as happy as when I added the pictus to their tank.... All the extra flakes and bloodworms
[20:52 29/10/2004] <@craig> Ahh, I wasn't going that direction. I've seen it first hand.. The rubberlip in the 210 is about 3.5 inches, his mate the common is some 17 inches.. The little guy out poops him hands down. :-D
[20:53 29/10/2004] <+Noname> lol
[20:53 29/10/2004] <+Noname> the higher matabolism I expect
[20:53 29/10/2004] <@craig> Back to antics tho..
[20:53 29/10/2004] <+Noname> commons arnt known for their activity levels...
[20:54 29/10/2004] <@craig> He (they as a species) are known for their darting around..
[20:54 29/10/2004] <@craig> My mother, while she was reticent at first, now laughs heartily when he gets to zipping around the glass..
[20:56 29/10/2004] <@craig> On the subject of otos..
[20:57 29/10/2004] <@craig> When you were researching tonights presentation, did you come across anything that gives square footage per oto?
[20:57 29/10/2004] <+Noname> no, sorry
[20:58 29/10/2004] <+Noname> why, are you running into problems?
[20:58 29/10/2004] <@craig> Sorta..
[20:58 29/10/2004] <@craig> One of my 20L tanks, I can only keep one oto alive in it at a time.
[20:59 29/10/2004] <+Noname> I think that perhaps things like this happen randomly, with many fish
[20:59 29/10/2004] <+Noname> I have a corydoras, which I have tried adding additional members of 2 or 3 times, I always end up with one
[20:59 29/10/2004] <@craig> In the case of otos, I don't think so..
[21:00 29/10/2004] <@craig> Honestly I believe it is a food issue.
[21:00 29/10/2004] <+Noname> how many other fish are in the tank?
[21:00 29/10/2004] <@craig> The other fish don't compete for the same food source.
[21:02 29/10/2004] <+Noname> but, I would think the supplementation would be sufficient
[21:03 29/10/2004] <russ> what types of algae are otos best suited to feed?
[21:04 29/10/2004] <@craig> Diatoms.
[21:05 29/10/2004] <russ> consider the major makeup of diatoms compared with, lets say chlorophates
[21:06 29/10/2004] <russ> It may be the amount of a certain compound or protien SCALthat may not favorably support more than one oto in a particular tank
[21:06 29/10/2004] <russ> they may be a bit more specialized feeders
[21:08 29/10/2004] <russ> the tiny brittle little diatoms shells may have something to do with their digestion?
[21:08 29/10/2004] <@craig> So as I was alluding to early, Russ, it does seem to boil down to food source.
[21:09 29/10/2004] <russ> I'm sure it must.
[21:10 29/10/2004] <russ> Diatoms are more aggressive in newer tanks
[21:10 29/10/2004] <russ> more silica based
[21:12 29/10/2004] <russ> diatoms may regenerrate to an extent in a tank and still not be not astetically pleasing if nutrients from oh, maybe large water changes are frequentlay performed
[21:12 29/10/2004] <russ> and are not available to other types algae
[21:12 29/10/2004] <@craig> I've just become accustomed to on fat oto.. :-D
[21:12 29/10/2004] <@craig> one*
[21:12 29/10/2004] <russ> :-D
[21:13 29/10/2004] <russ> if one fat oto is to be, it is to be:-)
[21:13 29/10/2004] <@craig> I do want to get a grip on why though..
[21:14 29/10/2004] <russ> on why only a single oto can be kept alive in that one tank?
[21:14 29/10/2004] <@craig> Yeah..
[21:15 29/10/2004] <russ> It may be something simple or a small chain reation causing it. Like a butterfly effect.
[21:15 29/10/2004] <@craig> And I suppose that would be hard to do without looking at the food source under a microscope to see how it has evolbed with the tank?
[21:15 29/10/2004] <russ> How long does more than one survive on an average?
[21:16 29/10/2004] <@craig> Week, maybe 10 days.
[21:16 29/10/2004] <russ> yes, it would. That and subscriptions to some very expensive online scifi journals
[21:16 29/10/2004] <russ> Hmmm, thats pretty quick considering
[21:17 29/10/2004] <russ> But still long or short enough for more than one to starve
[21:17 29/10/2004] <russ> how many time has this ocurred?
[21:18 29/10/2004] <@craig> Of 6 added over time, I have one left of the original 3..
[21:18 29/10/2004] <russ> were they from the same group or a few different ones added over a period?
[21:19 29/10/2004] <russ> ooops, never mind:-D
[21:19 29/10/2004] <@craig> 3 different shipments. ;-)
[21:19 29/10/2004] <russ> ah
[21:20 29/10/2004] <russ> My theory would be a food component issue then. Just a theory at this point ;-)
[21:20 29/10/2004] <russ> Hi Sully :-)
[21:20 29/10/2004] <sully> let's see how long i am allowed to stay around this time :B
[21:20 29/10/2004] <@craig> I'm at a disadvantage tonight, Russ can type faster than I can.
[21:20 29/10/2004] <+Noname> lol
[21:21 29/10/2004] <russ> Geoff did a great presentation and now we are trying to figure out how Craig could keep more than one oto alive in a single tank:-)
[21:21 29/10/2004] <sully> cut back on the water flow?
[21:21 29/10/2004] <russ> hmmm, thats a thought
[21:21 29/10/2004] <@craig> Sull, we've touched on this, otos in the rivertank..
[21:22 29/10/2004] <russ> oh nuts,,,b r b
[21:22 29/10/2004] <sully> lol. i know that is why i mentioned it
[21:22 29/10/2004] <@craig> Otos do have the equipment to handle water flow..
[21:22 29/10/2004] <sully> they have the equipment--do they have the desire
[21:23 29/10/2004] <@craig> One does. :-D
[21:23 29/10/2004] <+Noname> lol
[21:23 29/10/2004] <+Noname> adaptation perhaps?
[21:23 29/10/2004] <+Noname> only one has clued in
[21:23 29/10/2004] <@craig> Adaptation doesn't occur that fast..
[21:23 29/10/2004] <sully> the will to live
[21:24 29/10/2004] <+Noname> that works
[21:24 29/10/2004] <sully> or the constitution to handle the stress
[21:25 29/10/2004] <sully> they are not a rapid water fish
[21:25 29/10/2004] <@craig> There has to be some environmental issue tho..
[21:26 29/10/2004] <sully> water flow is a hell of an environmental factor--impacts all aspects of the life
[21:26 29/10/2004] <@craig> There are slack zones..
[21:26 29/10/2004] <sully> feeding, resting, swimming....
[21:29 29/10/2004] <sully> you have the diet down. you have planted tank down. you have temp and water parametrs down. what does it leave?
[21:29 29/10/2004] <russ> back:-)
[21:30 29/10/2004] <@craig> Territory and competition for the same food source maybe?
[21:31 29/10/2004] <sully> they are really non territorial in my experience
[21:31 29/10/2004] <@craig> Not territory in that sense of the word..
[21:32 29/10/2004] <@craig> If over time the quality of the food source diminishes, that sense.
[21:32 29/10/2004] <@craig> Russ touched on this a bit earlier.
[21:32 29/10/2004] <sully> why does the quality of the food source diminsh? you can add whatever they need thru foods
[21:32 29/10/2004] <@craig> Only if they will consume it does it matter.
[21:33 29/10/2004] <russ> it may be down to just a component in the source
[21:33 29/10/2004] <sully> so, what makes it hard for them to consume it? water flow will have a tremendous impact as will tankmates
[21:34 29/10/2004] <@craig> Nothing hard about it, they either consume what is available or they die.
[21:34 29/10/2004] <russ> I was thinking earlier that if it is diatoms, maybe this stuff has something to do with digestion also
[21:35 29/10/2004] <sully> my belief really rests with water flow--craig ain't gonna buy--so i'm gonna stop selling
[21:35 29/10/2004] <@craig> (Grr, why do I have to get into a conversation like this when it hurts like b*tch to type.)
[21:35 29/10/2004] <+Noname> aww...
[21:35 29/10/2004] <Gopi> :(
[21:35 29/10/2004] <+Noname> poor craig... :(
[21:35 29/10/2004] <Gopi> if it makes you feel better, apparently JP is not a boy
[21:35 29/10/2004] <+Noname> o_O
[21:35 29/10/2004] <russ> the more I think about this, the more I remember oto tanks in my shop doing a little better when there was brown algae in the tank as opposed to none and supplementing with waffers
[21:36 29/10/2004] <@craig> There is a constant source of brown algae in the tank.
[21:36 29/10/2004] * Gopi is in a little trouble
[21:36 29/10/2004] <@craig> I supplement with algae wafers.
[21:36 29/10/2004] <sully> brown algae and here is a word i think craig will appreciate how hard it is for me to type -- the biofilm--the other stuff that goes with the brown algae
[21:36 29/10/2004] <+Noname> craig, does the one oto handle the current ok?
[21:37 29/10/2004] <@craig> Geoff, he uses it..
[21:37 29/10/2004] <+Noname> cool..
[21:38 29/10/2004] <russ> back to an oto's main food. Is it mostly diatoms?
[21:38 29/10/2004] <@craig> Let me give the feeding regimen for the tank.
[21:38 29/10/2004] <russ> or bacillariophyta algae?
[21:39 29/10/2004] <sully> you know what--i can't really say for certain--they do a lot of plant grazing--that is what has shown up as the main item when autopsied
[21:39 29/10/2004] <@craig> Main staple is flake, a good protein/vegetable mix (not the stuff from the LFS)..
[21:39 29/10/2004] <@craig> Twice a week the tank gets a frozen food, bloodworms, tubifex, krill, etc..
[21:39 29/10/2004] <@craig> Every other day, algae wafers..
[21:39 29/10/2004] <sully> lol--we all love to mix our own concoctions don't we? lol
[21:40 29/10/2004] <sully> mine feast on shrimp/krill pellets
[21:40 29/10/2004] <@craig> I do NOT clear the back wall of the tank, it is brown..
[21:40 29/10/2004] <russ> I had a killer liver mix for my guppies :-D
[21:41 29/10/2004] <sully> yeah--the only glass i clean is the front--mine are plastered all over the glass at various times
[21:41 29/10/2004] <russ> Craig, do any of your other tanks have otos in?
[21:41 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> russ, liver an beef heart.. dad swears by it
[21:41 29/10/2004] <sully> they do like the algae wafer--not like plants, shrimp pellets and glass though
[21:41 29/10/2004] <@craig> Russ, no.
[21:42 29/10/2004] <russ> Jess, and daphnia :-)
[21:42 29/10/2004] <sully> i am with dad jess
[21:42 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> hehe
[21:42 29/10/2004] <russ> Craig, it must be something going on in that tank that is not happening in the others. Have you ever had otos in any others?
[21:43 29/10/2004] <@craig> Never had the inclination to have otos in any of the others.. They were a source of algae control the other tanks didn't need.
[21:44 29/10/2004] <russ> Next chance, take a chane and place two otos in another tank (if possible) and see what happens.
[21:45 29/10/2004] <@craig> Umm, well, do I change the diet for those tanks?
[21:45 29/10/2004] <sully> then if they live get em nice and fat--then put them in river tank and see what happens. key to otos is fat otos
[21:46 29/10/2004] <@craig> Other than my rivertanks, I have NO algae problems..
[21:46 29/10/2004] <sully> so who needs algae to have otos?
[21:46 29/10/2004] <@craig> I spend half my paycheck on algae wafers now.. Geez. :-D
[21:47 29/10/2004] <sully> they will do just fine off the plants--they do not NEED the algae
[21:47 29/10/2004] <russ> :-D I forgot about the 3.5 incher and the 17 incher.
[21:48 29/10/2004] <@craig> The problem is this, the ONLY tanks I don't have packed to the hilt (yes, read: overstocked) are the rivertanks..
[21:48 29/10/2004] <sully> at least in the sense you are thinking. they will live just fine on the bits that come and go in any tank
[21:48 29/10/2004] <@craig> Umm, Sull, you've had problems with otos too..
[21:48 29/10/2004] <russ> maybe that is a food component key in the other direction. Maybe supplemented with chlorophytes algae?
[21:49 29/10/2004] <russ> green
[21:49 29/10/2004] <russ> instead of all brown?
[21:49 29/10/2004] <@craig> The 10 with the endlers then?
[21:49 29/10/2004] <sully> no, i won't say problems. I have had some die--around water change times--i have had some eaten--but not a general health issue
[21:49 29/10/2004] <russ> I think they should do ok with Endler
[21:50 29/10/2004] <@craig> Endlers gonna get some bud's then. :-D
[21:50 29/10/2004] <sully> and at tank intro time
[21:50 29/10/2004] <russ> just try two. That shouldn't put too much of a pinch in the waffer budget:-)
[21:51 29/10/2004] <@craig> A 14 ounce bag of large wafers makes it two weeks here when we stretch it..
[21:53 29/10/2004] <russ> I have to admit that I used waffers like I use use dechlor:-D No particular measurement involved:-D
[21:54 29/10/2004] <@craig> You don't have 15 big loaches who get cranky if they don't get their wafers either. :-D
[21:54 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> LOL russ!
[21:54 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> me too ;_D
[21:55 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> i've got a pile of otos, which amazingly lived through neglect.. i guess sully was right earlier on the board.. i thought i lost them, but they must have grazed on the plants..
[21:56 29/10/2004] <russ> Catfish are not my strong point.
[21:57 29/10/2004] <russ> otos certainly fit into that category. What is their main type of algae that they are not only experts at consuming, but also a must have?
[21:59 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> russ, had some of those.. in a tank without algae.. thought they were dead.. i pulled over 10 out of that tank
[22:00 29/10/2004] <russ> Luck of the fish draw?
[22:00 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> dunno..
[22:00 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> i got healthy fish at the time..
[22:01 29/10/2004] <sully> knock on wood
[22:01 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> lol
[22:01 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> sully, they've lived longer than i thought.. any more days with me is a gift :-)
[22:01 29/10/2004] <sully> lol
[22:02 29/10/2004] <sully> and a pleasant gift for them
[22:02 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> hehe
[22:02 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> yup
[22:02 29/10/2004] <russ> :-)
[22:02 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> they're in the algae tank now
[22:02 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> so, they can eat to their hearts content, lol
[22:02 29/10/2004] <russ> shower time. b rb :-)
[22:02 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> well.. one of the algae tanks
[22:03 29/10/2004] <sully> i have a sick fish right now and am perplexed--don't know what to do and I don't have enough hair to pull out either
[22:03 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> lol
[22:03 29/10/2004] <@Jessica> what is wrong?
[22:03 29/10/2004] <@craig> Umm, since editing is going to be fun for me, can we move this to the other channel?
[22:04 29/10/2004] <sully> don't know--probably a bacteria
[22:04 29/10/2004] <sully> no problem with that here