Chat transcripts

[20:05 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> Welcome to Tonight's installment of Moderated Fish Chats. Craig will be speaking tonight about one of my favorite fish: Clown loaches. Have at it craig :-D
[20:05 04/03/2005] <@craig> Short, sweet and to the point, gotta love it.. ;-)
[20:06 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> got the job done :-D
[20:06 04/03/2005] <@craig> Anyways, folks you get to listen to me babble for a short bit about one of the most beloved of all loaches..
[20:06 04/03/2005] <@craig> Botia Macracantha -- The clown loach.
[20:07 04/03/2005] <@craig> To get started I want to first post a picture here so that you can see what you can have if you treat these guys right:
[20:07 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/clownpack.JPG
[20:08 04/03/2005] <@craig> From here I hope to in no particular order cover how to provide them a new home and determine what a proper home is for them.
[20:10 04/03/2005] <@craig> We've all been there, we walk into the fish store and this cute little 1 inch orange and black loach wiggles its tail fin at us.. Its too hard to walk by the tank with out having the LFS guy put one in the bag..
[20:11 04/03/2005] <@craig> Yes, you can utter those fateful words, "bag'em" but there are a few things you should keep in mind.
[20:11 04/03/2005] <@craig> Clown loaches are not particularly picky of habitats so long as you provide them with more than ample hiding places..
[20:12 04/03/2005] <@craig> Personally, I'd suggest at LEAST one place to hide per loach, 2 or better makes for the merrier loach.
[20:13 04/03/2005] <@craig> As strange as it sounds, the more places you give these guys to hide the more you will see of them.
[20:13 04/03/2005] <@craig> They like to be able to hide at a moments notice, if you give them that, they will be very grateful to you and you will get to see their antics quite often.
[20:14 04/03/2005] <@craig> As a bare minimum a 4 foot tank is recommended..
[20:15 04/03/2005] <@craig> Again, personally I would recommend a 6 foot tank as they like to cruise across the tank at fast speeds when aroused.
[20:16 04/03/2005] <@craig> What one has to remember is that little one inch loach when cared for properly will in the span of a year grow to a length of 4-5 inches..
[20:16 04/03/2005] <@craig> And you can't just have one, 3 should be considered the smallest group to keep.
[20:17 04/03/2005] <@craig> You really can't judge tank space by length either, like goldfish/koi, as clown loaches grow in length, they also attain a substantial gerth.
[20:17 04/03/2005] <@craig> Yes, they get fat..
[20:18 04/03/2005] <@craig> I won't go into the age old argument of even or odd numbers, that is something that is purely up to your group, all I can do is say that you need at least 3 to give them some security in numbers.
[20:19 04/03/2005] <@craig> I have 11 here and they are housed in a 210 gallon tank, the largest being almost 8 inches long total length (including tail).
[20:20 04/03/2005] <@craig> Will this tank be large enough when they all grow to their maximum acheivable size? No, it wont..
[20:20 04/03/2005] <@craig> However, after the initial growth spurt to the 4 inch range, growth slows dramatically to the rate of about 1 inch per year.
[20:22 04/03/2005] <@craig> For instance, one of our very own let me adopt her clown loach to add to my pack, when I got it, it was only about 2 inches long.. Over the past year of good eats and clean water, its punched its way into the pack at a respectable 4.5 inches.
[20:23 04/03/2005] <@craig> Diet is really not crucial, they will accept flake, some very eagerly.
[20:23 04/03/2005] <@craig> Bloodworms are the delight of all treats though and you can not go wrong with them.
[20:24 04/03/2005] <@craig> Mine prefer as their main staple sinking algae wafers, I feed Hikari here, the brand is not important as any sinking wafer will do.
[20:26 04/03/2005] <@craig> Temperature requirements vary, it depends on your loaches. Clown loaches are VERY susceptible to ich, especially when young or during transport.
[20:26 04/03/2005] <@craig> If you are not familiar with where they came from, you SHOULD quarantine them.
[20:27 04/03/2005] <@craig> I keep my loach tanks at about 82F all year long, which comes from a long term battle with ich I had early on in which I killed 10 of them because I had NO clue what I was doing.
[20:28 04/03/2005] <@craig> Anywhere from 78-86F will keep them active and happy.
[20:29 04/03/2005] <@craig> pH is not an issue, as with all fish, given proper acclimation they will survive and thrive.. The pH of my tanks averages about 8.1, so as you can see, it really is not that much of an issue.
[20:30 04/03/2005] <@craig> A planted tank is a bonus, it will give them more places to hide and yes it will also supplement their diet.
[20:31 04/03/2005] <@craig> Just be aware that broad leaf tender plants, such as echinodorus, clowns seem to delight in punching holes in just for the sheer enjoyment of it.
[20:32 04/03/2005] <@craig> The key to successful clown loach keeping is to remember their basic requirements; places to hide, a good varied diet and lots of room to move around.
[20:33 04/03/2005] <@craig> I believe that is a good over view, if there are any specific questions, please feel free to ask..
[20:33 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> I'll just open the floor :-)
[20:33 04/03/2005] *** Jessica sets mode: -m
[20:34 04/03/2005] <@craig> Don't be shy folks, I love to babble about clown loaches. :-D
[20:36 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> lol
[20:36 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> it would appear you've put them to sleep :-D
[20:36 04/03/2005] * @craig whips out the picture show
[20:36 04/03/2005] <Kimrin> :)
[20:36 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/210/041012bigclown.JPG
[20:37 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/210/210clown.JPG
[20:37 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/210/210clowntrio.JPG
[20:37 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/210/041012lilclown.JPG
[20:38 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/210/210clownduo.JPG
[20:38 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/210/210clown1.JPG
[20:38 04/03/2005] <@craig> Say when. :-D
[20:39 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> lol
[20:40 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> no one said when? don't you have more? :-D
[20:41 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/bigclown.JPG
[20:41 04/03/2005] <@craig> :-D
[20:41 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> only one? :-D
[20:41 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/dance1.JPG
[20:42 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/dance2.JPG
[20:42 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/P1010072.JPG
[20:42 04/03/2005] <NightEyes> ok ill bite whats the smallest tank you could keep them in?
[20:42 04/03/2005] <@craig> http://www.2cah.com/pets/loaches/P1010075.JPG
[20:43 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> for how long?
[20:43 04/03/2005] <@craig> Smallest tank? A 55, for no more than the first year or two at most.
[20:43 04/03/2005] <NightEyes> and with a school of 3 what size would you need for them to fully mature
[20:44 04/03/2005] <@craig> A deep 120 would give them a long life.. When I say deep I am talking 4 foot 120, not a 6 foot one..
[20:44 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> what's wrong with a 6ft one?
[20:45 04/03/2005] <@craig> Floor space..
[20:45 04/03/2005] <@craig> You know as well as I do that they have the potential to grow to 14 inches in captivity given the right conditions.
[20:45 04/03/2005] <NightEyes> what about feeding? what kind of variety do they like?
[20:45 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> 6x1.5=9ft. 4x2=8ft.. less floor space
[20:46 04/03/2005] <@Nigel> hw much would that weigh?
[20:46 04/03/2005] <@craig> Flake, algae wafers, worms of any type..
[20:46 04/03/2005] <NightEyes> will they eat planaria?
[20:46 04/03/2005] <@craig> A 6 foot tank gives them less space to turn around..
[20:47 04/03/2005] <@craig> NE, all things aside, if they are hungry enough, but I would never let them get that desperate for food.
[20:49 04/03/2005] <NightEyes> this is more of a general loach question but whats with the clickin they make while they eat?
[20:50 04/03/2005] <@craig> Communication to others for competition, no one really knows, but the general consenus is that it is their way of saying who is boss..
[20:52 04/03/2005] <@craig> There has only been one study done on fish communication and it involved another species of fish passing air through its anal vent to create noise.. Which didn't prove anything more than fish do and can communicate via sound.
[20:53 04/03/2005] <@craig> What they were "saying" to each other is anybody's guess. :-D
[20:55 04/03/2005] <Betsy> Maybe they were debating what to put on a pizza.
[20:57 04/03/2005] <Betsy> will the eat mts?
[20:59 04/03/2005] <Betsy> Hey, I asked a legitamite question.
[20:59 04/03/2005] * Erin runs and hides
[20:59 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> and we gave a legitimate answer ;-)
[21:00 04/03/2005] <Betsy> 'cause if they'll eat mts, I was going to offer him some free food...
[21:00 04/03/2005] <@craig> Betsy, thats the one thing about MTS, those snails seem to have a way of avoiding loaches..
[21:01 04/03/2005] <Betsy> Ah. the burrowing factor.
[21:01 04/03/2005] <Kimrin> brb
[21:01 04/03/2005] <@craig> I'm not saying clowns won't eat them given the chance, but that substrate thing gives them an upper hand so to speak..
[21:02 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> betsy, my bettas will take a few...
[21:02 04/03/2005] <Betsy> Does it make any difference if you keep them in sand as opposed to in gravel?
[21:02 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> clowns or mts?
[21:02 04/03/2005] <@craig> Not that I have seen here, Jess can offer more insight there.
[21:03 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> I don't think the clowns care. nor the mts, lol.
[21:03 04/03/2005] <Betsy> clowns- can they get the mts better in sand as opposed to gravel?
[21:03 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> ahh
[21:03 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> dunno
[21:03 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> my dad's kept clowns on gravel, but no mts.
[21:03 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> i've only kept them on sand
[21:03 04/03/2005] <NightEyes> why do loaches seem to like squeezing into tiny little places that could get them killed?
[21:04 04/03/2005] <@craig> Its their nature NE.. Self-preservation above all else..
[21:05 04/03/2005] <@craig> Speaking of which, here is the aftermath of a hollow decoration that 4 clowns snuggled into: http://www.2cah.com/pets/loachtrap.JPG
[21:08 04/03/2005] <Betsy> that's a whole lotta holes
[21:08 04/03/2005] <@craig> Channel locks and a hammer do that. ;-D
[21:09 04/03/2005] <Betsy> Did you recover anybody?
[21:09 04/03/2005] <NightEyes> no
[21:09 04/03/2005] <@craig> Yes, I am happy to say that all 4 were recovered and are still alive 2+ years later. :-)
[21:09 04/03/2005] <NightEyes> i tore the tank aprat moved everything cause i was doin a super heavey vac and never saw anything that is was or could be the missin one
[21:10 04/03/2005] <Betsy> Craig, what's a good alternative to suggest to folks that like the looks of the clown loach but lack the space to keep them adequately? I've been going with pentazona barbs lately due to the similarity in color, but they're just not very loachy.
[21:11 04/03/2005] <@craig> Betsy, go for a smaller loach.. Schisturas are colorful and have personalities that are awesome..
[21:12 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> if it is the body shape that appeals, sids and kubotai are both striking loaches and stay smaller
[21:12 04/03/2005] <Erin> Jessica, I heard a rumor that you know someone who has bred sids
[21:12 04/03/2005] <Betsy> Good to know- I keep finding folks on the board that are just heartbroken they can't keep clowns successfully.
[21:13 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> yeah, i do know someone. haven't seen him in awhile, though
[21:13 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> since that LFS is now about 6 or 7 miles from home
[21:13 04/03/2005] <Erin> any idea what the conditions were?
[21:13 04/03/2005] <@craig> Gimme another year. :-D
[21:13 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> total neglect, lol
[21:14 04/03/2005] <Erin> figures
[21:14 04/03/2005] <Betsy> Betsy pulls a year out of her time bank and hands it to craig.
[21:14 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> sids and plecos and a few mild mannered dwarf cichlids
[21:14 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> 2 dozen sids to start
[21:14 04/03/2005] <@craig> Gimme about 6 or 8 more and I'll see what I can do with the clowns. ;-)
[21:14 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> over 200gallons in tank space if i remember
[21:15 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> you're going to get rid of the clowns?!
[21:15 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> driftwood and a well planted tank
[21:15 04/03/2005] <@craig> No, years, breeding..
[21:15 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> ah
[21:15 04/03/2005] <Erin> hmmm...200 gallons and total neglect and plants
[21:15 04/03/2005] * @craig would NEVER get rid of his clowns
[21:15 04/03/2005] <Erin> do you think the plants would like some KNO3?
[21:15 04/03/2005] <@craig> Mom would castrate me.. :/
[21:17 04/03/2005] <@craig> I do still look at the trade-in tanks for abandonded clown loaches ..
[21:17 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> lol
[21:17 04/03/2005] <@craig> And the plants in those tanks do benefit from an odd potassium nitrate dose..
[21:18 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> i can't anymore... 9, and whenever dad feels the one in chris' 20gal is too large, it'll be 10
[21:18 04/03/2005] <Erin> lol
[21:18 04/03/2005] <@craig> ;-)
[21:19 04/03/2005] <@craig> As I said before tho, if you get triangle shaped holes in your echinodorus species, look at the botias first. ;-)
[21:19 04/03/2005] <Erin> has anyone seen this new Hootie McDeonald's commercial?
[21:20 04/03/2005] <@craig> I saw Brooke Burke at the end..
[21:21 04/03/2005] <@craig> Jess, let me wrap this up and you put the +m cap on it.......
[21:21 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> k (you could too)
[21:21 04/03/2005] <@craig> Folks, thanks for listening to me babble tonight, it was my pleasure to get to talk about my almost favorite fish. :-)
[21:21 04/03/2005] *** Jessica sets mode: +m
[21:22 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> favorite being the sid ;-)
[21:22 04/03/2005] <@craig> Take it to the other side.. (pfft! Chenis!)
[21:22 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> lol
[21:22 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> chenis suck
[21:22 04/03/2005] <@Jessica> ;-)