Chat transcripts

[20:03 23/04/2004] <@craig> Good evening everyone! Welcome to tonights installment of Live! Fishchat.
[20:03 23/04/2004] <@craig> This evening Jessica will be speaking on the topic of Guppies.
[20:03 23/04/2004] <@craig> As is usual, please hold your questions until after the presentation.
[20:04 23/04/2004] <@craig> Jess, when ever you are ready. :-)
[20:04 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> all right then. Howdie folks. :)
[20:04 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> I'll skip the introductions, as you all know me already
[20:05 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> today, I'll be talking about poecilia reticulata or the guppy
[20:05 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> this fish is also known as the 'million fish' as it capable of reproducing quickly
[20:06 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> this fish was originally discovered in 1948 by De Filipo in Trinidad, but credit was given to the english botanist who reported them 2 years later. His name was R.J Lechmere Guppy
[20:07 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> While we've known about this fish for quite awhile, it only became popular in the 1950s, when breeding various strains became the rage.
[20:07 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> this fish is considered to be among the most hardy of fish, yet many people have difficulties keeping these aquatic butterflies alive
[20:08 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> This is due in part to the heavy amounts of inbreeding it takes to take the common guppy you see in the feeder tanks and get the fancy guppies you'll find for $5 dollars a pair or so
[20:09 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> however, studies have shown that a guppy strain can be inbred for 18 generations with no ill effects
[20:10 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> It takes about 8 generations or so to purify a strain.
[20:10 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> However, most of the guppies you find at your LFS are not from reputable breeders working on purifying a strain
[20:10 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> they come from thailand or another asian mass breeder or from florida (usually)
[20:11 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> in Thailand, the fish are bred in vast ponds, and no care is given to guppies who carry genetic diseases or even the general health and well being of the fish
[20:12 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> they are concerned about profit, and dead guppies do not bring in money.
[20:12 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> so, they dose the fish with medications at almost every step.
[20:13 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> what kinds of medication vary from breeder to breeder, but it comes down to, by they time they'r shipped, they've been exposed to medications many times, regardless of wether or not they needed it.
[20:13 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> In Florida, they may play the medication game, but they also tend to breed their guppies in brackish or pure salt water
[20:14 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> when winter comes, they have a plastic greenhouse cover for the pond and that's it.
[20:14 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> (I'm sure there are exceptions)
[20:14 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> when these fish are shipped off, no care is given to aclimation to freshwater
[20:15 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> and anyone who keeps a brackish tank will be able to tell you it takes at least a week to take a fish from high salinity levels to freshwater. It is doable to do it in less, but it seems to be far less stressful to take it this slowly
[20:16 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> In short, by the time the guppy reaches your LFS, its been stressed to the hilt.
[20:16 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> this is where we come along. Everyone has gone and seen the pretty butterflies in the tanks and wanted one
[20:17 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> then, they hear that gupies are easy to breed, and its get me 2 ;-)
[20:17 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> however, these stressed guppies rarely live more than a couple months in our tanks, no matter how well we take care of them
[20:18 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> their fry is another story, and these should be the focus of your buying adventure from the LFS
[20:18 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> Another solution is to find a reputable breeder and get your stock from him/her.
[20:19 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> if you are looking to breed guppies for anything more than hobbyist pleasure, this is the advised route.
[20:20 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> when buying from the LFS, check the guppies carefully. I advise against buying any if there are more than 2 (of or 15+) lurking at the surface,
[20:20 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> the guppies should be straining against the tank sices, begging frantically
[20:20 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> if they are not, pass on them.
[20:21 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> there will always be another chance, guppies are one of the staples of the industry
[20:21 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> and bringing home sick fish is no fun. i've been there.
[20:21 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> housing
[20:22 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> a 5gallon is minimum, and you can hold a trio in there, but it is best for only a single female (and the fry she will have)
[20:23 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> the larger the tank, the better (as with all fish). 10gallons are cheap and work very well. they can house 10-15 young adults (who will need to be thinned as they grow)
[20:24 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> grow out tanks should be barebottomed or heavily planted
[20:25 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> breeding tanks are best kept heavily planted. the guppies of today are much more sensative to nitrates.
[20:25 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> Even more so to nitrites and ammonia
[20:26 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> both my dad and I have lost guppies when a mini-cycle occured. this causes stress which will lead to illness.
[20:27 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> it is best to keep nitrates under 5ppm, which is why i recomend the plants. they reduce the need for daily water changes, which can actually be detrimental
[20:28 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> when a guppy is accustomed to daily water changes the water is constantly similar to the pH of the tap water. when moved to ever other day water changes, my dad noticed an outbreak of illness and death, even though all water paramaters were good (badmans-good, 0-0-<5
[20:29 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> we surmised that this was due to the varation in pH and such that comes from allowing water to sit out. (this would probably not be an issue with people who have tap water very similar to their tanks)
[20:30 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> another thing to keep in mind is temperature. they actually prefer it a little on the cool side. 72-80 would be the desired range. do not allow the temps to get up ove 82/83 and stay there.
[20:31 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> Feeding is another isue. those who have visited the disease section today noticed a post about a guppy who's chest was bloated.
[20:32 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> my father found this was halted when the fish were fed less at a time.
[20:33 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> many guppies will eat themselves to death if given the chance.
[20:34 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> since they are unable to store food, their gut being more like a long intestine.
[20:34 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> they are omnivores.
[20:35 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> and a variety of foods is desired. live brine shrimp, blackworms, mosquito larva, and microworms are an excellent choice for live foods
[20:36 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> frozen can include pretty much anything you find in your frozen section of your lfs, mysis shrimp, brine, bloodworms, mosquito larva, beefheart etc.
[20:36 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> also, my dad has a paste he makes himself which has proven to be an excellent source for fry and adults.
[20:37 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> he goes to the grocery store and gets a beef liver and beef heart. he blends them together into a puree-paste.
[20:38 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> then he spreads it thin in several plastic bags and freezes them.
[20:38 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> when needed, he breaks off the amount needed and feeds.
[20:39 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> oh yes, best not to forget the other types of food ;-) flakes is a good mix in, i prefer Omega brand or Sera for the ones you can get at your LFS.
[20:40 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> I've found that with the Omega brand, you can raise guppy fry with it without need for the frozen or live foods. despite the artificial colors, its good stuff
[20:41 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> also offer them an assortment of veges when you think of it, peas, zucchini, blanched greens, etc. they will also graze the algae you have growing in your tank.
[20:42 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> my dad has found that feeding them twice a day will result in fry every 4 weeks while feeding once a day you'll get fry every 8 weeks
[20:42 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> at least a noticable amount ;-)
[20:44 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> when bringing home any new guppy, it is best to quarentine him in another room of the house, with his own bucket, etc. many store guppies are sick (see above) and some of the diseases they bring home can be devestating. Also, I highly advise quatentining them for 3 weeks
[20:45 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> my dad lost easily 200-300 guppies due to a disease a fish introduced who had been quarantined for only a week
[20:46 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> I'm not going to discuss the genetics as i'm working on getting another speaker on that. some things to think about for genetics can be found at this site: http://members.tripod.com/~PPGA/
[20:46 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> these are a fun fish to keep if you like eye candy. some of the colors in my dad's show tank are quite dazzling.
[20:47 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> and with that, my lengthy presentation is done. :)
[20:47 23/04/2004] <@craig> Thank you Jess, well done.
[20:47 23/04/2004] <@craig> If you have a question for Jess, please type: /query Craig I have a question
[20:49 23/04/2004] <@craig> Anyone? :-)
[20:49 23/04/2004] <Jessin> lol
[20:49 23/04/2004] <@craig> Kim, please go ahead.
[20:51 23/04/2004] <@craig> <Kimrin> Jess, I'm slightly confused about the water changes..are you saying that daily water changes should be done? even if the water parameters are "badmans good"?
[20:52 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> oh no
[20:52 23/04/2004] <@craig> Kim, you have voice in here now, you can speak directly to the channel. :-)
[20:52 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> i'm saying they shouldn't be
[20:52 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> weekly changes in a heavily planted guppy tank is sufficient
[20:52 23/04/2004] <+Kimrin> but what if it isn't planted?
[20:53 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> just watch the nitrates, if they get too high, you may want to make it more often
[20:53 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> even then, a properly stocked tank shouldn't have a high rise in nitrates.
[20:53 23/04/2004] <+Kimrin> ok, my nitrates are almost unreadable now but the tank has only been cycled a few weeks so I guess I shold probably watch it very closely
[20:53 23/04/2004] <+Kimrin> 3 males in a 6 gallon
[20:54 23/04/2004] <@craig> Sam? :-)
[20:54 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> i'd watch it closely simply because its new. but it shouldn't a be a problem
[20:54 23/04/2004] <+Kimrin> thanks!
[20:54 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> your're welcome :)
[20:56 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> sam, you have a quesion?
[20:56 23/04/2004] <@samantha> I was actually wondering the same thing about the water changes, but you answered my question. Additionally, I was curious about the beef heart/liver paste - whatkind of consistancy does that end up like when you drop it in the tank? I'm having a hard time imagining it... chunky, gooey..? I don't know if that question is clear...
[20:57 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> ah, its rather chunky and separates like powder, and then you get guppy balls where they're all surrounding it
[20:57 23/04/2004] <@samantha> ah, okay... thanks :)
[20:57 23/04/2004] <@craig> Russ..
[20:59 23/04/2004] <+russ> Jess, great presentation. You mentioned something about Florida farms raising guppies in brackish and pure salt water? I've known some of those farm managers and they never mentioned anything about this. Where did you get this info?
[21:01 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> ah, russ. to be perfectly honest, i got it from badmans. i did not come across reference to it in my search, but i did not look specifically to it.
[21:01 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> i must note that out of the masses of guppies my father an i have purchased from lfs, they have a very short life span
[21:01 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> with one exception
[21:02 23/04/2004] <+russ> yes, guppies do not ship well in-mass
[21:02 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> a female snow guppy who gave me 6 litters before she died in a CO2 accident which soured me on co2
[21:03 23/04/2004] <+russ> what disease have you and your dad found most prevelent in guppies?
[21:03 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> ok, i have one more comment to make and then i'll open it up for general discusson
[21:04 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> i forgot to mention tankmates. guppies themselves will pester their tankmates (the males will at least) but will not cause damage. however their tankmates can harm them
[21:04 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> thus choose your fellows with care. fish that are prone to nipping like barbs and certain species of loach should not be kept with them.
[21:05 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> bettas, even some female, will attack the brightly colored fins. plainer females can be kept with these fish, however.
[21:06 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> simply research the fish you want to keep with the guppies, which is good advice.
[21:07 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> keep in mind that guppies are an irresistable target, my dad's 110gallont tank used to be a community tank and has been reduced to tetras, gupies and an occasional livebearer as all fin nibblers were removed.
[21:07 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> and with that, i'm going to open the floor.
[21:07 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> thanks russ for that catch.
[21:07 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> very very informative Jess
[21:07 23/04/2004] <@samantha> Jess, that was most excellent
[21:07 23/04/2004] <Gopi> great jess (even though I woke up halfway thru)
[21:08 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> must admit it makes me a little sad though
[21:08 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> thanks guys :-)
[21:08 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> why so kim?
[21:08 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> oh, just because I really like my little guys and I''m afraid that it will get too hard having them die on me so often.
[21:09 23/04/2004] <russ> I had another question up there ;-)
[21:09 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> there are always exceptions kim.
[21:09 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> i missed that one russ
[21:09 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> sorry
[21:09 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> yes and that's what Hope is all about :):)
[21:10 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> I love the "aquatic butterflies" description. thay really are just that :)
[21:10 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> it seems in his tanks its the guppy disease thing i complained about in the diseases section many months back. i myself haven't had much disease. but then, i
[21:10 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> 've generally given him most of my guppies
[21:12 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> russ?
[21:12 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> what about you?
[21:12 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> i'm sure you've done the guppy thing
[21:12 23/04/2004] <russ> I've found out that columnaris is the the most dreaded culptrit, followed by the wrong water conditions whish lead to many other problems ( many of which you mentioned)
[21:13 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> you mentioned before in chat that you thought our 'guppy disease' was actually columnaris.
[21:13 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> you guys have Petsmarts and Petco's by you?
[21:13 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> yes
[21:14 23/04/2004] <russ> not in a 50 mile radius (Salina, KS)
[21:14 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> wonder if they use the same sources for their fish or different?
[21:15 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> here, i'd suspect different
[21:15 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> I'm lucky, I've got the chain stores plus several other private lfs
[21:16 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> I've had good experiences with my neighborhood Petco but I don't like or trust the Petsmarts
[21:16 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> Jp not done yet? :)
[21:16 23/04/2004] * Gopi is scared
[21:16 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> its different everywhere, petco guppies have the shortest lifespan here.
[21:16 23/04/2004] <JP-Changing-Water> Kim, I'm just getting started....lol
[21:16 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> Russ I apologize, didn't mean to interrupt the disease conversation
[21:17 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> don't be gopi, as long as you maintain your regime, it shouldn't be aproblem
[21:17 23/04/2004] <Gopi> that's not it
[21:17 23/04/2004] <Gopi> totally fish unrelated
[21:17 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> ok
[21:17 23/04/2004] <russ> Jess, I'll be able to cover many of the feeding aspects next week ;-) Have to depart for now though. Again great presentation:-)
[21:17 23/04/2004] <Gopi> by russ
[21:17 23/04/2004] <Gopi> *bye
[21:17 23/04/2004] <russ> Kim, thats ok, you didn't interupt:-)
[21:17 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> ok, thanks, have a good night
[21:17 23/04/2004] <@samantha> night russ
[21:18 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> JP I tried to schedule my tanks cleanings for Friday nights but it just didn't work out...i'm way to lazy by the time "Fall down Friday" comes
[21:18 23/04/2004] <russ> take care:-)
[21:18 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> you too
[21:18 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> anyone have anymore guppy related questions?
[21:18 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> bye Russ
[21:18 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> a million
[21:18 23/04/2004] <russ> :-)
[21:19 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> lol
[21:19 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> ok..
[21:20 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> naw, i can't think of them under pressure :)
[21:21 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> I'm afraid I may overfeed
[21:21 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> do their tummies swell when you feed them?
[21:21 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> I did once and their chests swelled up, so I fasted them the next day but I still worry about it
[21:22 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> do you think flake and other dry food should be soaked first before you give it to them?
[21:22 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> no
[21:22 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> thats not a problem
[21:23 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> ok, i'm paranoid about swim bladder because I see that alot in the stores and had 2 die from it
[21:24 23/04/2004] <Kimrin> Rin wants to add a 4th to the tank and i'm sort of amenable but I'm contented with 3 and I'm terrified of introducing another one because I feel licky that these 3 are healthy
[21:25 23/04/2004] <@Jessica> QT him, and it should be fine, but then