Chat transcripts

[20:04 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> Good evening folks :D
[20:04 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> Welcome to this week's Live Fishchat.
[20:04 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> Tonight, Craig will be talking to us about the importance of regular water changes
[20:05 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> Please hold questions til after the presentation
[20:05 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> Whenever you are ready, Craig :-)
[20:05 16/07/2004] <@craig> Good evening everyone, thank you for coming this evening.
[20:06 16/07/2004] <@craig> This will probably be a short presentation, but hopefully one that helps someone somewhere.
[20:06 16/07/2004] <@craig> Back when I first got started with fish I spent a lot of time reading the website: http://faq.thekrib.com
[20:07 16/07/2004] <@craig> Most of the information I will present tonight comes directly from there, the rest from general experience keeping fish.
[20:07 16/07/2004] <@craig> My favorite quote from the site is "The only solution to pollution is dilution."
[20:08 16/07/2004] <@craig> Regular water changes are the mechanism of "dilution".
[20:09 16/07/2004] <@craig> Over time our tanks accumulate dissolved organic compounds, so called DOCs and have a gradual accumulation of nitrates. (More on the nitrogen compounds coming.)
[20:09 16/07/2004] <@craig> To keep our fish healthy we must remove those compounds from the tank.
[20:10 16/07/2004] <@craig> Live plants can help, but only in rare cases will they be able to handle all the nitrogen produced by our fish and decaying waste from fish food and excretions.
[20:10 16/07/2004] <@craig> Regular water changes are again, the mechanism we use.
[20:11 16/07/2004] <@craig> You will notice a theme here tonight, "regular water changes". They are important, the lack of them for water reason can and will be to the detriment of your fish.
[20:11 16/07/2004] <@craig> Briefly, I'd like to cover the nitrogen cycle and the 3 chemicals that it deals with.
[20:12 16/07/2004] <@craig> The first and foremost killer of fish in a tank without adequate biofiltration is ammonia, NH3.
[20:12 16/07/2004] <@craig> At -any- level ammonia is stressful to our fish, at higher levels it is fatal.
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> Here's a small chart that can help illustrate this:
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> Harmful Ammonia Concentrations
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> Water Temperature
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> pH 20C (68F) 25C (77F)
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> _________________________________
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> 6.5 15.4 11.1
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> 7.0 5.0 3.6
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> 7.5 1.6 1.2
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> 8.0 0.5 0.4
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> 8.5 0.2 0.1
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> (Shamelessly stolen from thekrib.com)
[20:13 16/07/2004] <@craig> As you can see, as temperature and pH rise, ammonia becomes more toxic at lower levels.
[20:15 16/07/2004] <@craig> Even during the initial cycling of an aquarium, small water changes can make a big difference to your fish, should you decide on using the fish method of cycling your tank.
[20:16 16/07/2004] <@craig> The second stage of the nitrogen cycle produces a chemical called nitrite, NO2.
[20:16 16/07/2004] <@craig> While emminently less harmful to our fish than ammonia, at elevated levels it can be fatal also.
[20:17 16/07/2004] <@craig> Some suggest that at levels as low as .5ppm nitrite begins to stress our fish. At levels beyond 10ppm it becomes deadly.
[20:17 16/07/2004] <@craig> Again, small water changes to keep nitrite in check can go along way to helping your fish during cycling.
[20:18 16/07/2004] <@craig> The third and last chemical produced by the nitrogen cycle is nitrate, NO3.
[20:18 16/07/2004] <@craig> Of the three nitrate is the least toxic.
[20:19 16/07/2004] <@craig> Suggested concentration is less than 10ppm.
[20:20 16/07/2004] <@craig> 20-30ppm is an acceptable range, any higher then you are pushing the boundaries where fry can survive if you are breeding fish.
[20:20 16/07/2004] <@craig> At levels above 50ppm our fish will begin to suffer as their immune system will start to be comprimised.
[20:21 16/07/2004] <@craig> By now, you should be able to figure that I am going say that the only -real- solution to keeping nitrate levels in check is regular water changes.
[20:21 16/07/2004] <@craig> I did warn you that there would be some repetition tonight. ;-)
[20:22 16/07/2004] <@craig> I skirted around the issue of test kits in the discussion above.
[20:22 16/07/2004] <@craig> At a bare minimum ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH and KH test kits should be in your arsenal of tools.
[20:24 16/07/2004] <@craig> The first three should be used to monitor the progress of the nitrogen cycle, use them as indicators, if the levels get too high and your fish are showing signs of stress. Do a water change.
[20:24 16/07/2004] <@craig> The third test, for nitrates, should be used an on-going indicator of overall tank health.
[20:25 16/07/2004] <@craig> Since we don't have any direct way of measuring DOCs, the gradual build-up of nitrates gives us a means to monitor how fast the chemical compounds in our tanks are building up.
[20:25 16/07/2004] <@craig> Non-planted tanks should ideally be kept at 10ppm or lower.
[20:26 16/07/2004] <@craig> Planted tanks are a different matter, a steady 10ppm is not harmful to your fish and will allow your plants to thrive, while also helping to keep certain algae problems at bay.
[20:27 16/07/2004] <@craig> Since I am on the subject of planted tanks, I mentioned the last two test kits for these types of tanks.
[20:27 16/07/2004] <@craig> Plants do consume carbonate matter in the tank and over time can lead to a shift in pH.
[20:28 16/07/2004] <@craig> By monitoring both the KH and pH of our planted tanks, even if nitrates are low, we
can see when we need to do a water change to replace the necessary trace minerals.
[20:29 16/07/2004] <@craig> I do need to take a step back and mention that pH testing is also helpful during the initial cycling of the tank.
[20:29 16/07/2004] <@craig> For the very reasons that the chart above illustrates.
[20:30 16/07/2004] <@craig> How often do you need to do water changes?
[20:30 16/07/2004] <@craig> How much water do you need to change?
[20:31 16/07/2004] <@craig> The anwer, which is not a favorite among many is: It depends.
[20:31 16/07/2004] <@craig> Test your water.
[20:32 16/07/2004] <@craig> After a time you will start to see how the bioload of your tank affects the levels of chemicals in your tank.
[20:32 16/07/2004] <@craig> So what's the real answer to the above to questions?
[20:32 16/07/2004] <@craig> Test your water. Only through constant monitoring can you be assured that you are providing a healthy environment for your fish.
[20:33 16/07/2004] <@craig> Most importantly, if you are diligent about maintaining a rigorous schedule of water changes: You can never change too much water.
[20:34 16/07/2004] <@craig> To close tonight, I would like to mention on more phrase that comes up often: "Fresh water fish, love fresh water."
[20:34 16/07/2004] <@craig> With that, thank you for listening to me ramble. :-)
[20:34 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> hehe. Thank you craig. If any of you have any questions for Craig, Please type /query Jessica I have a question.
[20:35 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> Well, I'll go ahead and open the room up. led the flood begin ;-)
[20:36 16/07/2004] <Hoots> this one belongs in the books! well done
[20:36 16/07/2004] <@craig> No applause needed, just throw money. ;-D
[20:36 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> Thank you very much for filling in on short notice, Craig :-)
[20:36 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> ROFL
[20:36 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> i believe some here have already done that ;-P
[20:36 16/07/2004] <russ> Craig, that was pretty good..great presentation.....more.....
[20:37 16/07/2004] * @craig puts his index card with 5 words written on it away
[20:37 16/07/2004] <russ> Craig, a point about Nitrite toxicity in relation to ammonia toxicity.....Nitrite is not affected by pH.
[20:37 16/07/2004] <@craig> I never said it was.
[20:38 16/07/2004] <russ> I know. Thats why I just included it ;-)
[20:38 16/07/2004] <@craig> pH only affects ammonia toxicity.
[20:38 16/07/2004] <Hoots> why is that?
[20:38 16/07/2004] <@craig> I didn't approach the subject of water conditioners, didn't want to start a war.
[20:38 16/07/2004] <russ> ammonium
[20:39 16/07/2004] <@craig> At higher pH's the ammount of total -free- ammonia is higher Heather.
[20:39 16/07/2004] <@craig> Free ammonia being the killer.
[20:39 16/07/2004] <russ> yep
[20:40 16/07/2004] <@craig> http://faq.thekrib.com/begin-cycling.html#how-much-ammonia
[20:40 16/07/2004] <@craig> Just to get that link on the books. :-)
[20:40 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> :-D
[20:41 16/07/2004] <russ> Craig, you almost swiped some thunder and lightning for a future presentation I was going to talk about..:-)
[20:41 16/07/2004] <@craig> Almost?
[20:42 16/07/2004] <russ> I was planning one for 'filtration theory' 'practice and essence'
[20:42 16/07/2004] <Hoots> hate to run out so early but I haven't even started dinner yet, thank you craig, can't wait to get this printed out :)
[20:42 16/07/2004] <@craig> Take care Heather.
[20:43 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> have a good night heather :-D
[20:43 16/07/2004] <russ> take care Heather
[20:43 16/07/2004] <@craig> This chat was basically just an extension of the article I wrote some time back on Badmans.
[20:44 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> http://badmanstropicalfish.com/articles/article19.html
[20:44 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> ;-)
[20:44 16/07/2004] <@craig> Had I spent more time preparing, I could have gone into planted tanks a bit more and their relationship to water conditions.
[20:45 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> tom barr method?
[20:45 16/07/2004] <@craig> Yes.
[20:45 16/07/2004] <russ> It's still agreat presentation primer and good review for those in the hobby a while
[20:46 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> yup
[20:46 16/07/2004] <@craig> It *is* possible to have a tank of healthy fish in a tank where no water changes are performed.
[20:47 16/07/2004] <@craig> Plants are the key, lots of them.
[20:47 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> as long as you aren't breeding.
[20:47 16/07/2004] <@craig> Possibly.
[20:48 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> However, your comment brings to mind one point I was wondering. You mentioned that plants will take the carbonate from the water. If you were to say not do water changes for a lengthy time, how would you go replenishing this? Unless you had a massive evaporation problem?
[20:49 16/07/2004] <@craig> Top-offs?
[20:49 16/07/2004] <@craig> That's where the traces come from.
[20:49 16/07/2004] <@craig> And remember, we are talking -traces- here.
[20:50 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> take your 210, you say you have no evaporation. I know you do water changes, but say you got to the place they could be waved.
[20:50 16/07/2004] <@craig> I've also learned that evaporation isn't necessarily a bad thing.
[20:51 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> lol
[20:51 16/07/2004] <@craig> It can be indicative of other problems that can occur in the tank.
[20:51 16/07/2004] <@craig> Gas exchange being first and foremost.
[20:51 16/07/2004] * @Jessica nods
[20:52 16/07/2004] <@craig> To answer your query though..
[20:52 16/07/2004] <russ> the water evaporates, the rest remains?
[20:52 16/07/2004] <@craig> In the case where there is -no- evaporation, you would need to do water changes on even a fully plants tank.
[20:53 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> ok
[20:53 16/07/2004] <russ> wouldn't the excess nutrients concentrate as water evaporates.
[20:54 16/07/2004] <@craig> Russ, the plants use them as consumables.
[20:54 16/07/2004] <@craig> That's the point behind the heavy planting and low fish load.
[20:54 16/07/2004] <@craig> low to moderate, I should say.
[20:54 16/07/2004] <russ> you hit on another good point....low fish load with heavy planted tanks :-)
[20:55 16/07/2004] <@craig> During the little crisis here I had one tank I was not concerned about. My 20 gallon tank in the kitchen.
[20:55 16/07/2004] <@craig> That tank is a low tech planted jungle.
[20:56 16/07/2004] <@craig> It has had exactly 1 water change done on it in the last 12 months.
[20:56 16/07/2004] <@craig> The current residents are 9 cherry barbs, 2 kuhli loaches and 2 blue rams.
[20:57 16/07/2004] <russ> I bet they love it in there:-)
[20:57 16/07/2004] <@craig> I figure I must be doing something right with it, the rams are quite healthy and active.
[20:59 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> hello Cindy :-)
[20:59 16/07/2004] <@craig> 'lo Cindy.
[20:59 16/07/2004] <cindy> Hi..I missed it agiain, right?
[20:59 16/07/2004] <@craig> Yep.
[20:59 16/07/2004] <@craig> Dang Indiana time. :-D
[21:00 16/07/2004] <russ> Hi Cindy:-)
[21:00 16/07/2004] <cindy> I'm sure glad you guys take the time to do transcripts, or I would have only made two so far (not counting mine..LOL!)
[21:00 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> lol :D
[21:00 16/07/2004] <cindy> Hi, russ, long time no chat...
[21:01 16/07/2004] <@craig> I'll try to get this one up sooner Cindy.
[21:01 16/07/2004] <cindy> No problem...they are actually easier to read in the transcripts anyway...
[21:01 16/07/2004] <@craig> Although, posting the previous weeks transript a week lates is incentive to get people to show up for the real thing and participate.
[21:01 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> lol
[21:02 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> like the time you were off by a couple weeks..
[21:02 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> :-P
[21:02 16/07/2004] <@craig> Shhh...
[21:02 16/07/2004] <@craig> ;-)
[21:02 16/07/2004] * @Jessica blinks
[21:02 16/07/2004] <cindy> Good point! I just forgot tonight...I am washing flourite for my new 55, the long awaited planted tetra tank for my bedroom.
[21:02 16/07/2004] <@craig> Cindy, tonight I didn't a relatively short presentation on water changes.
[21:02 16/07/2004] <@craig> didn't? did
[21:02 16/07/2004] * @craig is getting tired
[21:03 16/07/2004] <russ> I think advertising the Fri chat a little earlier may help also ;-)
[21:03 16/07/2004] <cindy> I didn't even know what the topic was until I saw Jess's reminder and realized I'd probably missed it
[21:03 16/07/2004] <@craig> Cindy, even I didn't know what the topic was going to be until about 3 hours ago.
[21:03 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> lol. Cindy, you couldn't have known what the topic was before i posted it ;-)
[21:03 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> Seeing as that..
[21:04 16/07/2004] <russ> Thats keeping us on our toes:-)
[21:04 16/07/2004] <@craig> Fill-in on short notice. :-D
[21:04 16/07/2004] <russ> :-D
[21:04 16/07/2004] <cindy> I thought maybe it was in the "Chat Something or other and Transcripts" list and I just had'nt checked lately
[21:05 16/07/2004] <russ> b r b
[21:05 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> I put a temporary title on it, but we didn't know.
[21:05 16/07/2004] <@craig> I enjoy being on the other side of the fence every once in a while.
[21:05 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> still turned out well
[21:05 16/07/2004] <cindy> I'll bet he was preaching tothe choir tonight...
[21:06 16/07/2004] <cindy> Can you say "Amen?!"
[21:06 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> Aaaaaaameeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen
[21:06 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> ;-)
[21:06 16/07/2004] <cindy> Well, I have about 6 more rinses to go...for this bag,and two bags to go...night all...
[21:06 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> good night cindy :D
[21:06 16/07/2004] *** cindy (~cindy@cc2-24.217.118.19.charter-stl.com) has left IRC (Badmans Rules!)
[21:07 16/07/2004] <@craig> I didn't get to bug her about setting the river tank she said she was gonna set up in June. ;-)
[21:07 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> lol
[21:08 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> It is mid-July, isn't it?
[21:08 16/07/2004] <@craig> Something around there yes. :-D
[21:08 16/07/2004] * @craig will edit this part out. ;-)
[21:08 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> LOL
[21:08 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> have you edited out *anything*?
[21:09 16/07/2004] <@craig> There are times when I do, most often though, I just try to fix a few typos and hammer the smart quotes.
[21:09 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> nope, didn't think so
[21:09 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> hehe
[21:12 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> Peter, still here?
[21:14 16/07/2004] <@Jessica> ok, lets close up shop here. peter, doubleclick on the word after the # to go to: #badmanschat